Stacy Caprio on quitting her day job to be her own boss buying, building and growing businesses online

June 01, 2021 01:11:55
Stacy Caprio on quitting her day job to be her own boss buying, building and growing businesses online
Niche Website Builders Show
Stacy Caprio on quitting her day job to be her own boss buying, building and growing businesses online
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New podcast listener subscribers to the www.her.ceo list will get a special ‘Website Investing Checklist’ upon sign-up!

Tired of being told what to do at work? Do you feel like you are chained to your desk? Bust out of that cubicle to control your own time and freedom. It’s possible to quit your day job and be your own boss.  

In this episode of the Niche Website Builders Podcast, Mark Mars talks to Stacy Caprio, who has an entrepreneurship blog at Her.ceo. She talks and writes about buying, building, and growing profitable content businesses online. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:00 <inaudible> are you ready to get serious about building content sites and building a profitable business online? Welcome to the niche website builders podcast. We bring you the latest field tested tips, tricks and strategies for building a profitable online asset. We interview industry experts, share customer success stories and reveal our own experiences. Working on hundreds of sites to inspire and motivate you to make something happen. Let's do this. Speaker 1 00:00:42 Welcome to the niche website builders show. Today. I speak with Stacy Caprio. Stacy has an entrepreneurship blog over at her CEO, but she talks about building profitable content sites. So she, you know, generally and historically she's, she's both sites most commonly from flipper. She's grown those sites and some she's kept over time and then some she's sold. So, um, she used to have a day job that she didn't really get on with. She didn't get on with, uh, you know, working for somebody else was wanting to work on her own free time. And, um, so she, you know, whilst she was working, she'd kind of built a business up on the side and once she had enough money to kind of, to, to then break away and kind of do her own thing, she then focused on that. Full-time, um, she lived with her grandma for a little while while she did that. Speaker 1 00:01:34 So it's a really interesting kind of story. Um, and, and now she, you know, she makes a decent income she's she has around eight websites that she's kind of working on. And she, and what's interesting about Stacy she's, she's kinda mixing up a revenue stream. She's predominantly worked with ads historically, but now she's building, uh, an e-commerce site and also a lead gen site. So yeah, we, we get through quite a lot, um, um, talking about her journey and kind of how she, she made it out of her cubicle and managed to, you know, work on a sites full time. So, um, yeah, with that, I'll weave straight onto the show. Hope you enjoy it. Speaker 0 00:02:15 This episode is brought to you by niche website builders, an agency dedicated to helping people, just like you build profitable content sites, niche website builders are the hands-off content site marketing agency. You always wished existed. It's run by content site marketers for content site marketers, and they help both investors and individuals alike build profitable online properties. They provide a fully outsourced approach to content creation link-building and done for you. Website builds the same approach they use on their own six-figure portfolios. For example, their content packages come with a proprietary keyword research process are written by in-house native English speakers formatted using proven to convert and uploaded to WordPress with affiliate links added so that all you need to do is hit the publish button, check them [email protected] slash show that's niche, website.builders/show, and fill out the form to get coupon codes for 10% more content, or a 10% discount on links with your first daughter sent right to your inbox. Speaker 1 00:03:22 Welcome to the niche website builders show. Today I'm speaking to Stacy Caprio, Stacy blocks over at her dot SEO, where she documents her journey, making money from content sites, Stacy Byers grows and sales websites, and is now lucky enough to be able to do that. Full-time so we're going to be talking today about how she's able to do that and make that transition from a, a real job. Welcome Stacy. Hi Speaker 2 00:03:44 Mark. Thank you so much for having me. Speaker 1 00:03:47 Yeah, well, yeah, no problem at all. Really nice to have you on. Um, so w you're in Chicago, right? Speaker 2 00:03:55 Um, yeah, currently in Chicago you can kind of see some of the buildings in the background, but I, yeah, I love the view of living here with all the pretty buildings. Speaker 1 00:04:06 Yeah. You're right, right, right. In town. But it looks a bit, Speaker 2 00:04:09 Yeah. And you were saying your wife used to live here for a little bit when, after she graduated college, Speaker 1 00:04:17 She did, she was in Evanston yet for six months of her life. But yeah, I went and visited, visited her when we were at, when, when she was out there. So I've been to Chicago too, who really liked it, went and visited the museum. And if that's still there, it was quite a long time ago. Now it's probably changed quite a bit. Speaker 2 00:04:34 Uh, which museum the art Institute or there's Speaker 1 00:04:37 Um, has that one. Yeah. I went to that and then the, the space museum, am I making that up? Speaker 2 00:04:44 Oh, I, there a handful of others, like the Shedd aquarium and a different one, but yeah, possibly I've never been to all of them, so Speaker 1 00:04:54 Yeah. Yeah. But yes, it's a nice place. I went in, I went in like March, March, April kind of time. And it was, um, it was, it was snow. It was it's snowed like really heavy. But I remember it always is that the heaters that they've got on the, uh, the railway stations, right. You can just let go and stand under a heater. You can turn it on the side of the heater. Speaker 2 00:05:16 I love those. And they put those in restaurants sometimes, which makes it fun. Like you get the warm heater. Speaker 1 00:05:23 Yeah, no, yeah. It was strange. It was because of the time of year, like, I think it was snowed. And then, then like literally the next day it was sunbathing on the beach. It was really nice, but there was snow around everywhere, but it was really hot. So Speaker 2 00:05:36 That's Chicago for ya. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:05:39 Cool. Um, so yeah. Thanks. Thanks for coming on. I think it'd be really good to hear a little bit about yourself and kind of your background and they, that you blog over at, uh, her CEO, her CEO now see, or compensate that her CEO now. Um, but yeah, but that you're documenting your journey there, but like, it could be really good to kind of hear, know where it all began and, um, you know, kind of what brought you into this world. Speaker 2 00:06:04 Yeah. I saw, I graduated from Boston college in 2014, so quite a long time ago at this point, it's like seven years ago. And I had my first job at an e-commerce marketing agency. I helped run paid ads and for small local e-commerce businesses. And then I moved into running similar paid ads for, uh, venture funded companies at a different agency. So I really have a strong agency background and paid ads, interestingly enough. And then I moved into an individual role at a financial services company doing their marketing and paid ads. And the whole, the whole time I enjoyed parts of my job and I loved the learning parts and I loved the analytics and the tracking and I loved seeing results. So that's, what's really great about paid ads is because you put money in and you get to see clicks and traffic so quickly, and then you get to see the results and you get to see the revenue. Speaker 2 00:07:10 So for me, it's, I love seeing the input and then you get the revenue and the conversion sales output. So I think that's something that I've always enjoyed. And I think probably most online marketers love seeing that direct correlation and paid ads make it so easy to see that on a consistent basis and so quickly. Uh, so that's kind of where I got my love for online marketing, but the whole time I knew that I hated having my life controlled by someone else and going into the office, like having to be there at the like eight 30 or 9:00 AM each day. And then if you leave your desk for any reason, your boss asks you about it, or I remember I was taking like, uh, my lunch breaks away from my desk at my first job. And my boss pulled me aside on our one-on-one. He said, I've noticed you're leaving your desk for your lunch breaks. And I said, yeah, he said like, oh, you should be, uh, most of us just bring lunch. And then we sit at our desk and work while we eat lunch. And he said that Speaker 1 00:08:14 To me. Oh my gosh. So Speaker 2 00:08:17 I just knew that it was more of like you're being chained to your desk and you're not having the freedom. If you even want to go on vacation, or if you need a doctor's appointment, you need to get permission. People are always watching you. You're kind of like chained to your desk area. And for me, I've always liked the freedom of being able to walk outside in the middle of the day, run outside, direct my own business, just direct my life and my day to day. But also being able to see the input it's like when you do the online marketing for a company and you help them grow, you don't get to see that reflected in your own salary. It's still a fun game, but I like it. How, what we do, we get to see what we put in reflected in our own salary too. And also just choosing each day to day and choosing our projects is really fulfilling and rewarding. I think choosing the direction of each day for me is actually more fulfilling and rewarding than the money itself. Although I've made so much more each year in overall than I ever could have had the potential to make in my end in five. So I think you kind of get the best of both worlds, but for me, the autonomy is actually more important than the money. Speaker 1 00:09:30 Yeah. Yeah. So that sounded like, uh, I wonder you wanted to get out and like yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, I don't know what it's like in, in the U S but kind of, there's kind of like regulations about like being allowed to have kind of breaks and be able to like, actually like leave your desk for a certain period of time. Like yeah. Let's Speaker 2 00:09:51 Figure it out. That's interesting. You guys probably have more regulations. Although I have to say I was spoiled still with my jobs. It's like, I was only eight hours a day and I know people who do like finance jobs where they're working so much longer or other things. But interestingly, I don't think we have as many labor laws so they can keep you at your desk longer. Speaker 1 00:10:11 Yeah. I cannot, I can't even remember what it is, but he needs to have break every four hours or something like that. It is like, it's kind of a thing. How Speaker 2 00:10:20 Long of a break? Like 15 minutes or Speaker 1 00:10:23 I think, you know, I CA I don't even know, like, uh, it's like, yeah, we, that like, kind of HR and contracts kind of sort that thing out, but I think it's, it's normally four hours. You have lunch anyway, so you have kind of like an hour. So I think, yeah. Cause like if we got an hour day and they have four hours, like an hour lunch and then four hours again kind of thing. So, but I think it's, I think it's only half an hour the is kind of by law. Um, he needs to take a break, but yeah. Cool. So, yeah. So you kind of moved out of you kind of left that job and well, you didn't, you did leave that job, but how did you leave that job? Did you leave it before you were making any money online or were you making money online first and earn enough to replace your salary? How does that go? Speaker 2 00:11:12 Yeah, so the 15 minute lunch break job, that was my first job. So I left that one a little after a year to work at the other agency. And then I left that one and the financial services company was a lot more lenient and they let me have more breaks and that type of thing. But I still didn't like having my time controlled by having to be in the office for all that time. And I had started actually started reading Spencer's blog, niche, pursuits blog, as we were talking about before and reading a bunch of other types of online blogs and really getting a feel for that world at the time I was in my third job, I hadn't even really of it before then. And I read the flip a blog post on the Spencer Spencer's niche pursuits blog, and that was the first time I'd ever heard of Flippa. Speaker 2 00:12:05 So that's really what inspired me to buy my first website. And I bought my first three sites actually, while I was still at my nine to five, I think I liked having the guaranteed income and just using my savings to purchase the sites because I felt that even before, I just felt safer that way, knowing I had money coming in, uh, my first site purchase didn't work out. The person had lied about how much revenue is making. He said it was making $350 profit a month when it was actually making 20 to $50 profit a month. And I I'd bought this one for 1300 and it ended up not working out for me just because, uh, it wasn't as making, making as much money as he said, although it was nice to see my first affiliate commission come in and I realized that it was all possible through using that site. Speaker 2 00:13:05 Uh, so I took a few months break after that from buying websites, but I was still reading everything. And I bought my second site, which was much more expensive. And I knew I could quickly double the ad revenue by switching ad networks on this one. So I did that and it did actually double, this one was making 500 a month and I was able to double it to be making a thousand a month. So I was like, oh, this is great. This is so easy. And I love this. And then it was actually an app. It was like a fad. So the traffic declined severely after a few months of owning it. So I made back probably 80% or so, but not the whole thing even, but I kept going because at this point I really saw the potential because when you start making that much a month and you just realize what's possible. Speaker 2 00:13:59 So I was still at my job and I bought my third site and this one ended up being very successful. It made back everything I'd spent on sites and more, uh, quite, uh, just a little bit more. And that one I made a 400% return on and I was making a thousand a month with that site, by the time I left my job. So it definitely wasn't replacing my salary, but I knew that it was what I wanted to do because at that point, I each day, like walking into work, I would dread walking up the steps and I would just say, and it wasn't even a horrible job for me. I think it was just the freedom and the restrictions, but I just knew it was time mentally. So I actually was able to live with my who she's 95 now. And she was 91 when I made this decision. Speaker 2 00:14:57 And she said, yeah, Stacy, you can come live with me. And, uh, you don't have to pay your rent and everything. So if you want to build your dream and, uh, she was so supportive. So I was able to, I was like, okay, so that's why I'm in Chicago. Cause she lives in LA Grange park actually. So I went there and I lived with her and I was making a thousand a month from my third site purchase still. And then I was building, I actually do t-shirt business too. And I still have an Etsy shop called Stacey shirt shop. And so that's, I was doing that. Um, my mom is an artist. She used to be an artist in Chicago, so she does my drawings and I do the keyword research and do Amazon merchant Etsy and all of those types of things. So that was bringing an income and that actually got up to three K a month at one point, but then you really have to pour designs. Speaker 2 00:15:50 It's never ending point designs. And so I kind of let that fall off, but I still do it a little and just get the, uh, commissions from everything that was one of my focuses. But then I bought my foresight when I was living with my grandma. And that was the one that, uh, enabled me to be financially independent. It was making 1800 a month when I bought it and I bought it at a 10 times multiple and then I was able to grow it and I just kept doing keyword research and adding content over time. And so it just kept increasing in revenue. And so that's what enabled me a year later to feel very confident and comfortable leaving my grandma's and then moving into my apartment in Chicago, in the city. And it was actually, it's pretty much the one that I had, like on my vision board that I would like visualize. Speaker 2 00:16:41 And then I just found it. It was such a coincidence how I ended up finding it, but it's really cool how I was able to go from my nine to five to being given the chance to work on it while living with my grandma, without having to go into debt or losing money each month. And then Andy nap in your, in my dream vision board apartment, I think it's, it reminds me each day how powerful our minds are to, to just shape our own reality because you picture something and then you're able to work toward it. And then all of a sudden you're living like in your vision board, which is really, yeah. That's awesome. I love that. Speaker 1 00:17:27 Yeah. Wow. I can almost see you like, uh, yeah. I have a good drawing of a picture sitting exactly where you are now. Like the skyscrapers in the background. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:17:35 Yeah. I do. I have, I have a vision board even today. I love that type of thing. I think it's really powerful. Speaker 1 00:17:41 What's next? What's the next apartment in your vision board? I, Speaker 2 00:17:47 Well, I'm moving to Austin in October when my lease is up because I have other family there and it just seems like a place where I want to spend more time long-term and I was here because of my grandma, but I, so I will be there. I don't know if my apartment will be quite as beautiful there, but all of China, another vision for idea. I, yeah, I think I love Florida ceiling windows, so those will probably be on my vision board, but I actually don't have a apartment on my current vision board because like my current apartment, I suppose. Speaker 1 00:18:18 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. I got so yeah, so many questions like about that stuff. So, well, first of all, like how cool is your grandma? Yeah, she's so awesome. Yeah. But yeah, that's just awesome. Like especially, yeah. I mean, um, yeah, in, in her nineties as well, let's just, let's just say yeah. Speaker 2 00:18:41 Yeah. She's so healthy too. And just so vibrant and engaged and smart mentally too. So I love seeing her as like a role model and I feel like I hope I'm half as energetic as she is when I'm her age. Speaker 1 00:18:57 So you had a doing keyword research and evening. Speaker 2 00:19:00 Oh yeah. Doing all the heavy lifting is a Grammy. You go do that. Speaker 1 00:19:06 Cool. And so that first site you bought, like given today's like multipliers, like it wasn't far sure. Right. Of like probably what it w what you would pay for it today. Right? Speaker 2 00:19:18 It was like 35 to 60 times. Pretty much like 20 to $50. So good mental math there, but it's, it pretty much was, but he was, since he lied about it to me. Oh, it was making three 50. And then at the time the going rate was like 20 times multiple, but it's, yeah. It's crazy to think that people would actually buy that today. Completely. They would just buy it. Yeah. That Speaker 1 00:19:41 Second thought. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I guess that was the first red flag, right. It's like, you're going to get your money back in about four months. So I guess you just don't know when you first starting out though, but yeah. Tickets to be true. I had Speaker 2 00:19:54 No idea. I think I was going into it just completely blind and I didn't even know how to really verify revenue and traffic. And I didn't know the industry standards for that type of thing. So I think it was getting, it was getting a hundred or so visits a day. And I saw that in the analytics and I had no idea like, oh, if it's getting a hundred visits a day, an Amazon associates, like, however, if it was like 5% or 8% commission at the time, and then you think about the conversion rates, and if you just think about it, logically would have been like, oh, there's no way it's making $400 because I mean, every visit would have to be making, um, so much more than it was then affiliate commissions would make. So it's one of those things where if I had even had the experience of running my own site, making like a dollar a month, I would have known it was a fraud, but I think it's something you have to learn through experience. And I think I was really at that time to leave my job. So I was kind of willing to believe almost anything just to chat like a fairytale to get out of my position. Speaker 1 00:20:58 I almost thought that, did you get that from Flippa or was that somewhere else? Speaker 2 00:21:02 Yeah, I've actually bought all, all my sites except one on Flippa. So that one was, Speaker 1 00:21:09 And even the womb, the most recent one was a 10 X multiplier. Like how long ago was that? I mean, how did you manage that? I want to know your secret. Speaker 2 00:21:18 No, I've been actually very fortunate with some of my multiples. I, it was actually, it was a site that was on Flippa and it wasn't expired listing. It had actually never sold in the guy had listed it for years before I had contacted him. And I was searching through like the older listings I had never sold and I saw it and I thought, oh, that one looks really cool. And it was actually in the listing, it was making more than it was making currently. So when I messaged him and I said, Hey, can you add me to analytics? I'd love to see your site. And I'm interested in it. And he added me and he said, yeah, it's making less now. So I looked at it and I still liked it. So I think it was hit with a penalty or something, but so it was a penalty and it was an expired listing. Speaker 2 00:22:08 And I was messaging him years after and he was actually getting ready to retire. So I think it was just a combination of all those things. Or he wanted that like a little bit of a cash influx. He had the site, it wasn't making as much as it used to be making. And he, uh, he didn't want to be working on it anymore. So I think it was just kind of a handful of fortunate events where he said, you know what, I want this cash to retire. And I'll just give her the site at the tenax and probably cause it was panelized too, but it ended up being okay. And it was able to grow. So, uh, I think, yeah, I was just very fortunate in that way. I think getting a site in today's market at a 10 X, multiple is probably a little farfetched. Speaker 1 00:22:51 Yeah. But grade three, the expired listings office flipper. Maybe, maybe if you go through maybe Speaker 2 00:22:57 If a site doesn't sell the first time around the, owner's going to be more willing to offer you a deal or negotiate. Speaker 1 00:23:04 Yeah. Well, I'd love to come back to that site in a sec. But you said, you mentioned about the site that you had. There was an app, which was the fad app. You said you mentioned that that double revenue, what sort of time period did it take you to double that revenue? Cause you said it, it lost traffic pretty quick. And, and what did you do to, to double the revenue in that time? Speaker 2 00:23:25 It was a super quick, uh, switch actually to get it doubled. So when I bought it, it was making the 500 a month and it was running on Google AdSense. So what I did was it had quite a bit of traffic. So I was able to apply for Manu metric free publisher ad program. And because I had talked with them and I knew what their average RPMs were in those certain areas. So I thought it would be a good fit. And uh, that's when, so it actually took like probably two weeks to get approved. So it did, I did have like a two week lag period, but then right when I switched it up like a week or two later, so I suppose probably a month total, it, the revenue at that point was making pretty much double. So it took probably a month to get that implemented, to get the approval and then to get the ads on the site and then to ramp it up. So it was making more, but then for the next like three or four months, it was making like double and then it kind of started to slide and it was still making, then it just kind of slid off to where it wasn't at all. So that's, it was a little heartbreaking Speaker 1 00:24:41 I said is the app that today, now the app doesn't exist today. Speaker 2 00:24:47 I sold, I can just tell you the app. Cause it's, I mean, I'm not really making money from it anymore at all. So it was the word whistle, the word whistle app. Have you heard of that? Okay. I think it's a, I've never even, I don't have, I never even played it even after I bought the site for word game app or a picture app or something. I think it's a word game app. It might still exist, but if it does, it's not very popular. Like it doesn't get any traffic. So I wouldn't recommend building a site around at this point. Yeah. My site was actually, it was like an answer app, I think. So it helped people get the answers Speaker 1 00:25:30 To the puzzles. Right. Yeah. Cool. And so, um, so this site that you bought for that was making $1,800 a month, kinda how, how was that making his revenue? Like what was the revenue streams on that? Speaker 2 00:25:45 So that one was purely ad based revenue and I actually used only ad sense on it. I just played around, I added a few more ads when I bought it and, uh, tested a few different placements, but purely just ad based ad sense. And then I focused on growing the traffic from there to help keep increasing the revenue. This site had a pretty good RPM. So growing traffic even a little bit meant the revenue would go up a lot. So it was pretty fortunate that I was able to find that niche without really trying to. Speaker 1 00:26:23 Yeah. Yeah. And, um, so, so, so what happened to that longterm? Do you still have that site or is it, Speaker 2 00:26:31 Yeah, it's actually, that's the site that's making the most in my portfolio even today. So it was a good purchase in that sense. It's made itself back like many, many times over and it's just, yeah, it's definitely my favorite site and that's probably why I haven't bought as many other sites because after that, because I was just able to focus on that site as opposed to pouring profits back into new two different sites, which I know some people like to do as well. Speaker 1 00:27:02 So how, um, how have you managed to grow revenue on that site? Is it you're working on it quite actively or Speaker 2 00:27:11 I I've actually, I'm working on a few other projects more. I've kind of let it just bring in money on its own, but I was able to grow the revenue substantially on that site. It did actually drop, uh, well, I grew up very, very substantially, but then it dropped quite a bit in the, uh, December, December update of this past year. So it's definitely not making anywhere near as it was, but it still is making quite a bit and more than all my other sites. Uh, okay. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:27:47 So you grew a lot and then it kind of got kicked back a bit. Speaker 2 00:27:50 Yeah. Cause it, I think it was hit with the, in the kind of affiliate type update, because it was one of those pages where it was a gate. It was more of a gateway page site and in a lot of ways. So in the sense where it wasn't the final destination, even though it was ad based, if that makes sense, you're like it supported other types of content. So I think it was hit with that penalty. I'm not entirely sure, but it's yeah. That, yeah. Speaker 1 00:28:25 So how many sites do you have in those together right now? Speaker 2 00:28:28 Um, I have probably eight sites. I, I created a few of my own as well, and I recently created an e-commerce site and I also just bought an expired domain off of ODSP. So I'm testing growing that, and this is in a lead gen niche, but I just started, so I had to, it's a lead gen niche that has a lot of regulations. So I have to get licensed. I had to get, uh, uh, apply for different types of things to even set it up, which I think is actually kind of good because I think that it won't have as much competition because who's going to go through all the work of like all of these different steps. Like I've had so many steps, I had to take tests and do all this stuff. So I think most people aren't going to go through the work. Speaker 2 00:29:18 So it's, I'm not going to be competing with SEOs. I'm just going to be competing with regular people who set up this type of business. So I literally, I'm still actually I have like two more licensing steps in this to get it fully approved and then I'll have it set up. So that's, I have like two new, those are my two newest sites and I've created the e-commerce and then bought the other one off of ODSP and have been building it up. And then I have some older sites that I created and then the ones that I've bought and I sold my third site, which was my first successful site. So I don't own that anymore either, but I do have quite a few, like I have a handful of sites, so I try to give them each a little bit of time, uh, especially the newer ones cause I want to grow them. Hopefully. Cool. Speaker 1 00:30:11 That's cool. So it sounds like you got, yeah, you got quite a diverse kind of the different types of sites with different kind of revenue models and you've got your lead gen and now e-commerce, and you've got your ad revenues, he sounds like you're kind of dipping your toes into lots of different things. Have you, have you built a lead gen or an e-commerce site before, or is it, these would be your first ones? Speaker 2 00:30:32 These will be my first ones. Like you I've mostly done the ad based sites and obviously my first one was affiliate, but I found the most success with my two best sites from Flippa were both ad based. And the current highest revenue site I have is still ad based. And so I love ads and I love that you don't have to deal with the customers and all of that type of thing. It's way more hands off, but I am kind of excited because I think my e-commerce site has such a high RPM. Uh, it's just very high because it it's only gets like, uh, 30 visits a day right now, but it's making like a few hundred a month. So it's like a very high, it's a high average order value site. And then it's the people who get there. It's a very high pain point. So it's has a higher like conversion rate and everything. And then the lead gen site, if it works, it's going to have a very high art, like extremely high RPM. So I'm looking forward to that. I'll keep you updated if it ends up working out. Speaker 1 00:31:38 I want to say on both of these, you're still planning to monetize with ads as well as e-commerce and the gen Speaker 2 00:31:46 No, actually could the e-commerce I'm only selling my own stuff. Cause RPM is so high. I don't want to be handing off to competitors and then same with the lead gen. I wouldn't want to be handing it off. So I'm currently planning just to do e-commerce and lead gen on them. However, if someone offers to do like a fixed banner type ad on my site, I would be open on either just because I love having that like fixed, consistent income. And maybe, you know what, now that you mentioned it, maybe I should, once I get more traffic on them, test putting up ads just to see, cause I might not be handing off customers, but from, as we both know, ads can just add a good consistent stream of revenues. So maybe, maybe I'll test it. I'll have, I'll have to see once I get a little bit more traffic. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:32:33 You can just it. Yeah. See, yeah. See, see what impact it has on the sales and stuff. Yeah. I'm not, I've never done it on an e-commerce site and I guess it depends on the app coming up. Right. Um, but I've always found that people always worry about that with affiliate sites is that, you know, it's quite funny cause the video is quite low paying anyway, compared to e-commerce, but you know, ads are even lower paying. So, um, generally, um, so I I've always found that adding ads to my affiliate pages, like it doesn't impact them a lot. A lot of people will just put ads just on the info pages and not the, the review pages where the affiliate links are whenever I've added them. I've never noticed like any drop in, um, like take throughs for, for affiliate stuff. So, um, it might be different for e-commerce and I guess it might be depending on, on, on the niche as well. So, um, yeah, definitely worth testing I think. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:33:28 Oh, maybe not. You're I think you're right too for e-commerce because it's also the trust factor. Like if you go to an e-commerce site and see ads on it, it makes it a little sketchy. So I feel like maybe I wouldn't do it on the e-commerce unless, maybe on the info only pages like you said or something, but I can take a look at that. Yeah. In a few months or whatever, once my traffic gets up a little. Speaker 1 00:33:52 Yeah. Or it would just be like, he's like you say, just the odd banner here or there that people rent the space. That could be okay. Like if it's not too in your face. Speaker 2 00:34:01 True. Yeah. Even if it's like a complimentary product or something, or like a affiliate relationship with, I actually do have a few affiliate Amazon affiliates on the site just for products that I don't sell, but Amazon does that are complimentary. So I suppose it's a semi affiliate too, but it's not the affiliates not making a ton of money. So I mostly focused on the e-commerce side of it. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:34:29 So, so the e-commerce site is that, um, digital products or is it physical products? Are you making your own products? Are you drop shipping? Like what are you doing with that? It's Speaker 2 00:34:40 A physical, it's actually in the health based niche. It's a product that I personally have purchased a lot of the past few years. And I just knew that it was the type of product where even if I didn't have much money, I would say I'm going to allocate money toward it each month because it was that important to me to have it. So I think, uh, that's part of its charm. And I actually, I had reached out to the seller when I was purchasing this product and I said, can I do affiliate for you? And a few years ago? And they said, we don't do affiliate, but we do wholesale. And so I said, okay. And so then a few years later, uh, I decided to actually, when my other sites ad revenue decrease a little bit, I was like, I should have other projects running just in case this keeps going down like all the way or something. Speaker 2 00:35:30 So I can have other projects and just diversify my income streams a little bit. So I contacted them and I said, I want to do wholesale if you still offer that. And they said, yes. And so I buy it wholesale from them at a 50% discount and then sell it at their same prices to my customers. And then I order some of the products from China too. So I, um, the, the, the wholesale 50% is from a us supplier and they make the products and send it to me. And then the other one, some of the other complimentary products are from the Chinese supplier. And those are like, uh, I got like a 75% profit margin on those. So it's higher Speaker 1 00:36:17 Too. Yeah. Say you're storing all these, these products. Speaker 2 00:36:22 Yeah. I store it just like in my closet, which I don't have much room in my little studio, but it's yeah, it's weird. And then you have to ship it out, which you have to pay a little bit for shipping each time. And I've had people do returns and I've had people like complained to me, but then I just do a return and a refund. So it's, doesn't hurt my reviews, but it's still, it is a lot more intensive in the customer service aspect. And I've actually had people like, I, once I have my phone number, like they've called me and every, like, just to talk about the product and to talk about things like it's yeah. It's, it's kind of, um, annoying in that way, but it's also kind of sweet if, when they really enjoy it. So it's, it's interesting. It's very different from running an ad based site or an affiliate. Speaker 1 00:37:12 Oh my God. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. That's um, yeah, that's definitely not for me, I think, but yeah, I don't want to be like, I, I guess, yeah. Um, I just, I'm really, really passionate about the product or whatever ever it is. And I just love talking about it then I guess that'd be fine. I just couldn't fit it in the day. Like, like, like what, what would you like, what do you, um, what's your plan long-term for that? Right. If you keep growing that site, you're going to need a bigger closet and you're going to be going down to like post all these parcels all the time. Like if you got like a longer term plan where you might get someone to help you with that, like what's, what are you thinking? Speaker 2 00:37:52 Yeah. I looked into that right when I started that, I think there are services called like picking and packing services. So if it starts getting, I think over like 10 orders a day or something, I could do one of those, uh, or I could do I've thought about high, like, um, renting out one of those little storage cubes or a little office cubes and hiring someone to do it for me and just ship it straight there. So I've thought of different things. So right now I've been getting like one order a week or so, uh, so I can handle going to the post office and everything, but, well, I suppose once it ramps up a little bit, cause I am starting to see the go up cause I've had the site for like say a little over six months now. So I think it should start to ramp up a little bit more too. Uh, so I think outsourcing that at some point is going to be a good idea. Um, I, yeah, right. As of right now, I can definitely handle, uh, one time. Speaker 1 00:38:55 That sounds cool. I'll in terms of the lead gen site then, so is that, is that like for lead gen for a service or product? Or like how does that yeah. What, what kind of lead gen is it that when you repeat it? Yeah, Speaker 2 00:39:11 That made me think a little, I was like, what is the lead gen part it's lead gen for it's technically lead gen for it's per yeah. You get a percentage of the product that someone purchases and they, um, so I guess suppose it is lead gen for a product it's a very, um, it's a larger product. So people do help sell it and educate people. So it's lead gen for the service, but also the product. It's more for the product because you get a percentage of the products, total sales, and it's quite an expensive product. So it's yeah. Lead gen for a product. Speaker 1 00:39:54 Okay. How do you do the tracking on like, do you just tell them that you've got a lead and like didn't trust them that if it converts that you'll get paid like that, or is this a, is there some sort of system they've got built in, which kind of does some sort of tracking Speaker 2 00:40:10 It's a, it's a little interesting, like you said, it's, you kind of have to have a little trust, like you'll you pass along the lead to them. And then I suppose I'm expecting them to update me when the lead closes and then to make the payment and I can check in and I both with them and lead and other things, but the leads going to come to me and then I introduce it to the other company and then they finish the sale process. So, and it's, it can be a longer sales process too. It can be like a few months. Uh, so it's, you do have to have a little bit of trust in that, but I'm hoping that they will include me and then send the commission just because they'll want to work with me and to get future business on commission. So if I keep sending them leads and they never send any, um, or there are different ways I can check in, check in and see if they've closed, but it's also harder because then every few months I'll just have to go through and check and check in with the people I've referred. Speaker 2 00:41:17 So I think it'll be a little trickier in that sense too. And that's part of why, like the ad based sites that we have now, because you just, you get paid so regularly and you don't have to check in with anyone because Google just kind of sends you your check each month, which is nice. Speaker 1 00:41:32 Yeah. Yeah. I remember it. Wasn't a say about the, uh, the, the other side now the e-commerce up, it's about the degenerate one as well. So there are brand new, fresh domains, aren't they? Speaker 2 00:41:41 That, well, the, yeah, the e-commerce is a little over six months. So I've been starting to see the traffic pickup and I I'm hoping it'll keep doing that. And then the lead gen, this is interesting. It's actually an expired domain from Odis. And right when I reset it up, it was getting like 30 visitors a day and it's still getting the 30 a day. But once I get fully certified, I'm going to be able to fully expand it. So I'm going to put in all the different categories and put the products on it, cause I'm not allowed to do that right now. And so once it's fully expanded, this is it's actually a, I think it's a, it's either a 10 or a 20 year old site. So it's very old. It has really good links from a bunch of government domains and a bunch of super official domain. Speaker 2 00:42:32 So, and it's already getting the 30 traffic a day, uh, from organic. So I I'm hoping once I fully build out the products, it's just going to really get the super relevant traffic. But also I'm hoping for at least a couple hundred a day, um, just off the bat without having to optimize too much, but we'll see. Cause that's, I suppose that's a question where you don't really know until you put it up. Cause Google could say, oh, I don't want to rank it for that type of thing. So I suppose I'm taking it a little bit of a risk there. Speaker 1 00:43:02 Yeah. I mean, it's a good sign that it's getting traffic, he was getting still getting traffic, then it's probably, that's a positive for sure. And you probably will find that it will he'll ramp up quite quickly. Like a niche website builders. We work with expired domains with our clients a lot. And my portfolio we use expired remains a lot as well. Um, so yeah, we've had really good success with the expired domain. So I guess the only thing you probably need to, like, from what you've just said, like you sounded like you need to be a bit cautious about is just making sure that, you know, you're not using a domain that was something completely different before and trying to use it for something different. Yeah. So yeah, it needs to at least to be because otherwise any of the backlinks that you have got, I kind of know you're not going to be topically relevant to what the site is today. So yeah. So that I, yeah, you just need to make sure that's the case among, among other things that you kind of wanna check, but, um, um, yeah, just from what you said there about like, uh, you know, we'll Google, it, it rank like, I think you just need to kind of make sure that there's some relevance there in the backlink profile, um, or, you know, from what the site was previously, um, that's what word say. Speaker 2 00:44:14 Yeah. Yeah. Do you have any tips for me about, uh, when I'm using the expired domain? Like what have you guys seen work or what do you really see, um, to be helpful when you're building those out? Speaker 1 00:44:29 Yeah. So, um, uh, when it comes to building them out like this, there's a few things that you can do kind of, but I think the main thing is kind of, um, like making sure that you vet the domain in the first place to make sure that it's kind of the, we actually go w first I think it might be a first or second podcast that we did is kind of things to look out for it when buying an expired domain. So that's kind of a good place to start for the listeners and stuff. Yeah. Um, and, um, the second thing is that if, um, you know, you can kind of go back and check in way back machine used to way back machine before. Speaker 2 00:45:09 Yes. Yeah. I love way back. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:45:12 I like how it builds out. Yeah. So you can kind of check out what pages were there in the past. You can use tools like H rest of see what the, what back links did exist. And then you can kind of any, any pages that, that exist. I've already got a lot of back links. You can kind of recreate them either as they were before, or kind of just recreated another page, which kind of the same kind of thing. So you can kinda piece back together. Some of the site that it was before, if it's relevant for the niche that you're working in, now, it doesn't have to necessarily be visible. It can be just in the site map, Brighton gets indexed by Google. Doesn't have to be part of the navigation or anything like that necessarily, but it kinda, you can kind of pick up on that traffic and costs. You want to make sure that any of those things that were coming in either three oh one to a relevant page on your site, or I don't category, or at the very least to the homepage, otherwise you're going to be losing a whole bunch of links when you kind of first buy it when you first start using that X at the main cause. Um, yeah. So there's a few things, um, that you kind of need to make sure you are, you want to do ready. Speaker 2 00:46:20 Yeah. Awesome. I think I did pretty much a very similar strategy to that so far so, and I think it's been getting the traffic and I didn't include a bunch of the pages that didn't really have the links in the trusts and some of them still get traffic, but then I think it, like, it doesn't, it goes to the sign. It just goes to the homepage or it goes to the air page. So I almost wonder do you find that you include pages that still get traffic, even if they didn't get links? Like, do you, should you, should I update it to include those types of pages? Speaker 1 00:46:56 Yeah. Yeah. It'd be still do or at least three. I want, again, it's like something that's relevant. Um, but, um, yeah, generally we kind of, I mean, yeah, I think the links are probably the most important, but if it was getting pages that the traffic has a page before, then there's kind of no harm in kind of doing that as well. Um, we kind of, generally we kind of, we kind of do it a little bit different each time, but if generally, if it's got more than three links to that existing page, then we correct. Try and create a, uh, another version of that page of how he just four it's got less than three links or has some links then with Jemele, Sean, we direct it to like a category page or, or some other kind of relevant page. And if it hasn't got anything, then generally we'll just redirect it to the homepage. So you can use the, um, their plugins within WordPress, which will just redirect any, any form or force to the homepage. Oh, I should, maybe I should cut that in. Yeah, it's called like a four, a four to three oh one or something. Is that the plug-in school? So it just catches it's like a catch or any, anything you might've missed it just then redirects to the homepage. Speaker 2 00:48:04 Oh, awesome. That's well, that's good to know that you've had some success with your expired domains. I'll have to listen to that other podcast. You mentioned that it gives me a little hope for this one and I've already seen it after to a pretty good start. So I hope, uh, once I fully build it out, it'll get the traffic. Cause like you said, it, it is an, a super relevant niche. Uh, so I'm hoping it'll rank. We'll see. Speaker 1 00:48:30 Yeah. That'd be a good test anyway. Right? Yeah. That's a good thing to test you. I mean, there's a lot of a look, we've got a lot of podcasts that are kind of, cause we do a lot of expired domains. A lot of the ones we've done already have, uh, I've got, um, you know, we talk about expired domains as well, but we we've had like wide range of success. Like sometimes they just take a little bit longer to get going and they always is quicker than a brand new domain, but sometimes it takes a little bit go. Sometimes it just takes off instantly. Like we've um, we, um, are working with a client on the site, um, just recently and in four months we went from zero to over a hundred thousand visitors, a hundred thousand sessions. They just four months with the next bite at the main. So that detects Speaker 2 00:49:16 What was the growth each month? Speaker 1 00:49:19 It was, it was, it was just kind of straight line up really. Cause we, we S we launched it with, um, I think it's 150,000 words of content for another 150,000 words on, so that's 300,000 words. And then I think it might've been another thing that he's now like really investing in that. So it's like another a hundred thousand words. The a hundred thousand recently got accepted onto media vine. We think he'll probably be hit like around $3,000 a month, like straight away, like with, with that site in four months. And so he's like easily got the money back. He's paid us for like, doing that. Well, what I will say is that we also, it was a really powerful expire at the main, it was, I think it was like, um, 50 something quite, uh, quite powerful. Um, but we also redirected three other expired domains into it that were relevant. So it's kind of getting all of hat, kind of all of the links from all of those, those domains and that kind of helped raise the authority of the site as well. So it was already powerful, but we would be directed more into it to, Speaker 2 00:50:26 Wow. And have you seen, so longterm, does do those redirections help it like even a few years into the future? Are those more of just a initial boost? Speaker 1 00:50:36 Yeah. Cause, uh, uh, essentially it just, you know, you're increasing the backlink profile. So you started off with a certain number of backlinks that w we, we, uh, you know, by another domain and three oh one, redirect all of the links into that. So you're just building the link backlink profile and again, raising the authority of the site. And again, like, you wouldn't want to do it too much. Like, like I wouldn't recommend going too crazy on it. Cause I think that's a flag for Google, but now people, businesses acquire sites in other businesses all the time and have good reason to throw one site one into the other. So merge sites and things like that. So it's kind of a normal thing to happen on the web, but you wouldn't want a ton, it kind of end up putting like 20 redirected it in like, especially in a short period of time, let's say, um, Speaker 2 00:51:24 Yeah. Oh, wow. That's great to hear that type of case study. Wow. That's they must be happy with their traffic and the growth. Speaker 1 00:51:32 Yeah. He's got, yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. I mean, we've had really good. I mean, we've got plenty of others that gets into the tens of thousands pretty quick as well. So, but then others just take off for three or four months. <inaudible> two or 3000. It's just, there varies a little bit, but he never quite can't tell, but yours will be good in that. It's great. It's, there's some, some that have like dormant for a little while. We'll tend to, um, like take a longer to kind of ramp back ramp back up. But if he also has been sitting around with traffic, it sounds like you've got some sort of site on there, which means at least it's getting indexed and like, Google's kind of seeing it again and it's getting it's it's aging it's second life or whatever, you know? So it sounds like the elders should be quite quick as well to, but, but it, it really varies. It's hard to tell. Speaker 2 00:52:21 Oh, interesting. Do, where do you guys buy yours? Your expired domains? Speaker 1 00:52:26 So we source them as well. We've got some partners that we work with, so we we've just got lots of, we just built a network of contacts, kind of sell expired domains, but a lot of them also come from auction. So from, from GoDaddy auctions or, um, mostly from GoDaddy, both there's other auction sites out there as well, we pick up stuff, but, um, yeah, it's kind of a, quite a manual job because there's the mind's expiring every second of every day, trying to sort through those and then finding the good ones is quite challenging. But then we, you know, we find a few a week and then we kind of sell them on our site with a content package. Um Speaker 2 00:53:05 Oh, awesome. Okay. Yeah. I'll have to take a look at what you guys sell too. Cause you put a ton of content on there, like 150,000 words. That's so much. Speaker 1 00:53:15 Yeah, it isn't, it isn't like a hundred. And like, it depends on like, even if you, if you think, um, a concrete thousand words is, um, like if you say the average article size is two, 2000 words, that's 50 articles. So it's, it sounds a lot, bit, yeah. It's 5,100 articles. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:53:35 I mean, it's a good starting point for any state I would think. Speaker 1 00:53:39 Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And that's what we sell. We sell them with an expired domain and a hundred thousand words of content because we figure if you're going to invest in an expired domain, you might as well give it a good start. Yeah. You don't want to be investing a couple of thousand dollars in a domain and then just putting 10,000 words on it, like, you know, going to see anything. So yeah. Okay. Did we do you guys only Speaker 2 00:53:58 Sell, oh, do you only sell expired domains with content or do you sell some new domains with content? Speaker 1 00:54:06 Yeah, we did. We'll do fresh domains as well. So we built sites or if you've already got a site, we'll just do content, um, content and links. Awesome. Cool. Be good to dig in a little bit into kind of some of, some of the, kind of, some of your strategies about like how you've, um, you know, you've been very successful in kind of building and kind of growing your sites. Clearly. One of your like strategies is kind of changing the app ad network over and was kind of one of the first things that kind of adding some more ad placements and things, but, um, yeah, when it comes to, so you started some of these sites as well. Haven't you see a little bit about that, but in terms of when I, once you bought a site, how do you decide what you're going to do next to kind of work on it? Once you flipped out launch, you changed their hats or had to take, he has like, w what's the, like the next step will take us through kind of what your, your, your thought processes for presuming you go through that thought process before you buy it. And you kind of think, okay, this is how I'm going to kind of grow this site. So what is it, what's the sort of things you kind of look out for and how do you, how do you go through that process in your head? Speaker 2 00:55:14 Yeah. So first I'll look at that RPM of the site and just what it's currently making with the ads, and then figure out if I'm going to add more ads or the ad placement or switching the ad network, like you were talking about, like, what are the quick wins we can just kind of increase the revenue. And I've had a lot of success success with switching ad networks, uh, putting to ad networks, like just adding an ad network, adding like sponsored banner ads and that type of thing, which I love just being able to increase the revenue pretty quickly without doing much work or without it taking much time. So those are always the most fun, like quick wins that I think a lot of people enjoy seeing. And then I also look at, I like to have sites that have the higher RPM because I've owned those types of sites, including my most successful site. Speaker 2 00:56:08 And the third site I actually bought had such a low RPM. This site was getting millions of page views every month. It had tons of traffic, but the RPM was very, very low because it was only making a thousand a month even at its peak. So I think the RPM was like 30 cents to like a dollar. So it just wasn't really performing in that sense. But, uh, I like to find so after having that experience with like the low RPM sites and the higher RPM sites, I've always now I gravitate toward higher RPM, both in the sites. I create really researching that and the ones you buy, making sure that they have the higher RPM, because if you're going to put the effort into growing the pages and the visits, why not have it be higher revenue pages and visits, cause it's going to take effort to grow it anyway. Speaker 2 00:57:04 So in that plays into niche selection with all of the sites that I have and when you're doing the research, I usually check to see what I use, do an HRF search to see for competitive, competitive domains in that niche to see what they're ranking for and to see which if there are a lot of keywords left to target and see how competitive that is to see if the competitors are, have a higher da than you and are ranking for those types of keywords. And then also to see what the market cap on those keywords is like how much search volume can you potentially get. And so I like to use the Google keyword planner to, to see like, just brainstorm a list of all the keywords in that niche that aren't currently on that site. And then just see what the potential keyword volume would be and then, uh, use that and to the decision. Speaker 2 00:58:02 So then when I purchased the site, I like to, uh, use that keyword research list and then also do more in depth keyword research and, uh, then make like a Excel sheet that has a content plan with just the keywords that I want to target. And then I usually start with the keywords that have the most volume potential, and then just kind of work through that content plan. And then also, uh, look at the current keywords it's ranking for. And so I like to see if there's any way to like quickly boost those keywords. So I found one way to do this is if you go into the Google search console, you see the keywords that are ranking like lower on page on like five to 10 or on page two. And then if they have higher volume, you can, uh, do some internal linking to boost the volume for those types or put them in the P uh, the menu as well. Uh, so I found those types of things can often help you just get more traffic with the site. And so those are some of my main like keyword, uh, traffic boosting strategies. Speaker 1 00:59:18 Yeah. I think, um, internal linking is great. And I think it's one of the most undervalued kind of such easy things to do. Like it's a free back link at the end of the day. You're getting link juice flying around your, your site all the time. If you can pass some of that to those pages, then yeah. You're going to get a boost. So, yeah, Speaker 2 00:59:37 Yeah, yeah. Do you guys do a lot of internal linking on your expired domains before passing to the clients? Speaker 1 00:59:44 Yeah. Yeah. So any, any, um, yeah. I mean, any page that we kind of create on a site will be, you know, you need to yeah. We'll make sure it's got some links coming to it from somewhere else in the site, this non-orphan page. Um, so yeah, we do that kind of, it's just a matter of course, like we don't even, I mean, retrospectively do kind of what you said and kind of go bottom of the bottom first page, second page and kind of see what needs to boost and maybe that's external links or maybe it's internal links, but, um, yeah, like we'll do internal linking to make sure every page isn't orphaned and this, every page has got some incoming inbound links, uh, coming to them. Yeah. Cool. And I think I was gonna ask another question, but I kind of forgot kind of what, where we're at, but yeah. Like, um, so yeah, so that's like a good, good tips there, I think, um, for how you come up with those, those things. So, um, in terms of like content creation, like, do you write all of your content yourself or do you have writers or how does it, how do you work with that? Speaker 2 01:00:45 I actually do. I write all my content myself and that's why I probably thought your 50 to a hundred articles are a lot of content. I was like, oh, that would take like, cause I only write like an article a day or something or sometimes even less, honestly, I'll just let sites run on autopilot. So I cause some, I like to focus on other aspects of the business other than just content. And sometimes once I have a site built out with all the keywords, I want it to rank for it. I'll just focus on the rankings of those as opposed to adding more and more. And I, I know there are so many different strategies in that adding even the lower volume keywords can really help a site. But I, I personally just like to write the content because I find it's higher quality, first of all. Speaker 2 01:01:30 And if you're going to outsource it and I found that sometimes when I have low quality articles, they don't even get a chance to rank or they'll show on page one for a week or something. And then Google will decide that they have to have a bouncer or something and they just won't and then they'll drop off the rankings. So I think that's something that I've just seen. Cause I mean, I have outsourced a little content and I think maybe I just didn't have as good of a process. Like I'm sure you guys have good writers and a good process and good cost efficiency. But for me it just wasn't. So I found that me writing it was better in terms of cost efficiency, but also in terms of quality, I just saw the most success with doing fewer articles, but better articles for my sites. Speaker 2 01:02:17 And then even like, I don't have that many articles. Like I think my, even my biggest site only has like 300 articles on it. So I'm not wanting to build out like thousand page sites. I just like to focus on the keywords that like the top few hundred keywords, um, that are the most relevant for each site. Although I think that is one area I could definitely work on. And I'm not opposed to that in the future, especially if I got a better process or maybe if I outsourced it to someone like you guys, I don't know if you outsource content production as well. I think you mentioned that, but Speaker 1 01:02:56 Yeah. Yeah, we do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we, the reason we started the agency was because we found the same thing. Like we couldn't find, you know, we work, we tried all of the agencies out there and kind of never, never got what we, we won't say. It never was never the, you know, the quality that we wanted hiring your own writers is just a minefield and just takes ages and as a headache and just finding a good one and then keeping hold of a good one and you might find a good one, but they're not reliable. It's just so I don't mind to start at our own team to work on our own portfolios and then kind of just start offering out to, to other people. And it seemed like, yeah, we weren't the only ones that were interested in that, in that, cause we do the full end to end like the keyword research, the uploading in certain affiliate links, all of that too. So, um, cool. So, uh, just before we kind of kind of wrap up, like in terms of link-building, is there, do you ever do any, do any link building purposefully or do you wait for organic links or like yeah. Do you do any kind of link building or outreach for your sites? Speaker 2 01:04:02 I do. I do. Uh, so I do my internal linking and then I've actually seen success when I've had multiple sites in the same or similar niches to do linking from my own site to my other site. But I try not to do reciprocal. I try to just do linking from one of the sites to the, to the one I would rather have be ranking. And I've seen that be really successful too. And then I also do link outreach. So I, I write, I tend to try to write guest posts in the niche and get links from that for the site just to build up its brand name authority. And then I also do a lot of Herro. So I do the hero outreach to get the links, to build the authority. And I found all of those things really help grow my site's domain authority. And then they also help grow the rankings. And it's just like a consistent thing over time. Although it takes, I think building a site's authority, it takes like quite a while, I think, which is why by an expired, I mean, just kind of a fun shortcut because it can take years to really get a site to like a 50 or a domain. It can really be an authority and start ranking for a lot of keywords. Speaker 1 01:05:22 Yeah, for sure. For sure. Awesome. So what, what's the, what's the plan for fear over the next, uh, you know, a couple of years, are you bang on doing the same thing and are you going to move by Sam's a business? Are you, are you, um, panel just building out more sites, increasing the size of your portfolio working on these sites, new businesses like what's Speaker 2 01:05:44 Yeah, great question. I, I actually really want to keep building the, her CEO brand and that's one reason I want to restart the podcast too, cause I have a podcast on that site. So maybe I'll have you guys on at some point or you come over and talk about some of your case studies. I also, uh, I want to really grow the sites that I'm creating. So the e-commerce one and the lead gen one personally, I think that multiples have really soared over the past few years, especially like they're just so high that, uh, as we were talking about, I like buying sites like a 10 times multiple or 20 times. Like I'm just not used to the 30 to 65 times because then it's just, there's so much risk because if you don't make it back in that time period, then there's just a lot more risk involved if it's a higher multiple, because you might not make it back and due to things outside your control. Speaker 2 01:06:43 So I do like buying, buying sites at lower multiple stuff. I can find some good expired deals. I actually am not opposed to buying sites, but I think I'm actually, I might buy a few more expired domains in build sites and then also build them from scratch. I kind of like that approach because it's a lot more cost effective. And as you said, you've, you guys have seen success from it too, which is kind of cool. So I think I definitely, I'm going to keep running a portfolio of sites, including my current sites and the two new ones we were talking about and the her CEO brand. So I kind of have quite a few just sites. I want to keep humming along and growing and building into their own brand and authority. I don't really see myself in the near future, moving away from owning and growing websites because I've seen them be so, uh, profitable, especially compared to other investment types and just different types of businesses you can create. Speaker 2 01:07:41 And I actually bought a duplex recently too in Austin, Texas, just outside of it. So I am starting to grow my portfolio in other ways, so I can not be completely dependent on websites for my entire life, but definitely I don't see that those going out of my life in the near future. Um, I love, I love growing sites still in. I love working for myself. So I'll keep you updated with the, her CEO side. If you sign up for the email list and all the listeners can sign up to if they want to stay how my new sites go and how the current ones go as well. Speaker 1 01:08:20 Yeah. I'm already signed up. So yeah. Do you want to tell the audience a little bit about her CEO, um, and to, you know, it says a little bit more about kind of what your, what your plans are there and what you're doing there at the moment? Speaker 2 01:08:34 Yeah, definitely. So her CEO, it's a site for website owners and entrepreneurs and marketers, anyone who wants to learn how to grow their own website or grow their own business and different tips based on my experience in case studies and my readers and listeners, case studies and experiences, I like just pulling them all together and sharing them with people and looking at the landscape and just sharing my thoughts. I actually don't send out too many emails, but, uh, you just signed up, so you'll get the auto responder. I have like five emails set up in there. I think they'll get a nice little flow for the next few weeks. And I, yeah, I definitely don't spam. I only send out super interesting or good things. And also I have a website investing waitlist where I only send out website type deals if you're interested in purchasing a site and the site itself has some information in case studies, you can check it out to see my past journeys, past sites I've owned or purchased. And I definitely will keep updating that as well. So it's just meant to be a resource to help people. And I think both mark and I were inspired by Spencer's blogs. So I think it's fun to have a blog that can hopefully inspire other people to follow their dreams and to grow their businesses, which is the goal of her CEO. Speaker 1 01:09:59 Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, we should, um, maybe talk to you another time as well about how you kind of get your, your deal flow with the buying and setting sites and yeah, that'd be kind of interesting as well, I think. Um, okay, well, um, yeah, anywhere else that our audience should go to find you, or is that the best place, best place? Speaker 2 01:10:18 I think that's the best place and they can send me an [email protected] as well, if they want to reach out. And then I'm on Twitter too at S T a C Y, and then the number four and then startups. So like Stacy for startups, that was like my first freelancing things, Stacy for startups as I'm over on Twitter. And you can shoot me an email too at Stacy at her CEO. And those are, yeah, I'll definitely, I reply to email every few days and everything. So I'll say hi to anyone who reaches out. Speaker 1 01:10:57 Awesome. Okay. Well, thanks for your time, Stacy. Really appreciate you coming on the show and, um, yeah. Good luck with, um, your plans going forward. Speaker 2 01:11:06 Awesome. Thank you so much, Mike. This was so fun and I'll have to take a look at, uh, all your sites that you're selling to in case there are any that catch my eyes. Speaker 1 01:11:16 Awesome. Thanks Stacy. All right. Thank you, mark. Thanks again for tuning in and I hope you enjoyed the show. If you're listening to the podcast version of this episode, please subscribe on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts, please rate and review. As this will allow us to grow our audience and create more shows like this one. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to be the first to know about any new episodes that we release until the next episode. Goodbye.

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