Nick Loper from Side Hustle Nation on inspiring thousands of people to make thousands of extra dollars

June 29, 2021 01:00:58
Nick Loper from Side Hustle Nation on inspiring thousands of people to make thousands of extra dollars
Niche Website Builders Show
Nick Loper from Side Hustle Nation on inspiring thousands of people to make thousands of extra dollars
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Show Notes

 

What’s riskier – starting a business, or relying on a corporate job as your only source of income? Try a side hustle to make extra money, pay off debt, learn new skills, use free time more productively, and escape the rat race to build a future of financial freedom.

In this episode of the Niche Website Builders Podcast, Mark Mars talks to Nick Loper, who inspires people with ideas about how to earn money with the Side Hustle Nation podcast and blog. Nick is an entrepreneur who believes in the hustle to change lives.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:09 Are you ready to get serious about building content sites and building a profitable business online. Welcome to the niche website builders podcast. We bring you the latest field tested tips, tricks and strategies for building a profitable online asset. We interview industry experts, share customer success stories and reveal our own experiences. Working on hundreds of sites to inspire and motivate you to make something happen. Let's do this. Speaker 1 00:00:41 Welcome to the niche website builders show. Today. I have Nick Loper on the show. Nick Loper helps inspire people with ideas on how to earn money through side hustles via his podcast, the side hustle show and blog side hustle, nation.com. I'm a longtime listener of the show. So it really was a privilege to speak with Nick. We, we covered a lot of ground talking about, you know, how he got started online and other and an offline in, in the side hustles that he had, uh, from when he was in, in college. Um, we spoke about some of these, uh, affiliate site ventures and some of the weird and wonderful businesses that, um, guests have shared on his show. Um, I really enjoyed speaking to Nick. Um, Hey, sounds like a nice guy on, on his podcast. And you know, I can say that he's a, he's a nice guy to speak to too. So, um, I really hope you enjoy this one. Speaker 0 00:01:33 This episode is brought to you by niche website builders, an agency dedicated to helping people just like you build profitable content sites, niche website builders are the hands-off content site marketing agency. You always wished existed. It's run by content site marketers for content site marketers, and they help both investors and individuals alike build profitable online properties. They provide a fully outsourced approach to content creation, link building and done for you. Website builds the same approach they use on their own six-figure portfolios. For example, their content packages come with a proprietary keyword research process are written by in-house native English speakers formatted using templates proven to convert and uploaded to WordPress with affiliate links added so that all you need to do is hit the publish button. Check them [email protected] slash show that's niche, website.builders/show, and fill out the form to get coupon codes for 10% more content, or a 10% discount on links with your first order sent right to your inbox. Speaker 1 00:02:39 Welcome to the niche website builders show. It's a great privilege for me to welcome Nick Loper from side hustle nation onto the show. Welcome Nick. Speaker 2 00:02:48 What's going on here? Thanks for having me. Speaker 1 00:02:51 No problem. No problem. I really wanted to say Nick Loper there, they like the way you do on your, on your shirt. Uh, get there. I just like the way you say it. So, um, but as a kind of unexpected you to do it yourself as well there, but, um, yeah. So thanks so much for coming on the show really appreciate you spending the time with us. Um, I've been a long time listener of the show myself. Um, uh, I love listening to show. I love listening to all the ideas and now I have prob problems, Paul, like most people probably have like, you know, shiny object syndrome where I hear an idea and I think, wow, that sounds cool. And I'd like to do something like that. You've got to got to reign yourself in a bit, but Speaker 2 00:03:29 Yeah, very much so. No, thank you for, thank you for tuning in and that's, that's definitely been a challenge as, as the host too. It's like, well, you know, and that's the mark of a good episode where you hang up the call saying, oh shoot, I, I should do that. That sounds cool. I want to try that. And um, and especially early on, there were a handful where it's like, yeah, let me go a report back on the results. I'm going to go take this advice and run with it. But I'm very, not very, not very conducive to the world of focus, but very good for that shiny object person, for sure. Speaker 1 00:04:01 Yeah. I mean, I was going to move us. We'll talk about <inaudible> but like, I mean, I guess there's like certain strongly objects that you can apply to your existing business. You can probably take some of the learnings from one of your guests and apply to what you already have and therefore you're not jumping too far away, but, you know, have you, do you, have you found yourself kind of diving into some of the, some of the ideas that people have had on the show that maybe outside of like your normal kind of day-to-day, uh, kind of business? Speaker 2 00:04:29 Yeah, so early on, especially, um, we had a guest on his own episode five, and so it's very early days of the podcast and he talked about how he had earned enough money on Fiverr in his first year to buy a house. And so I was like, wait a minute, you know, I've heard of Fiverr, I've been a fiber customer, but what could you possibly be selling for five bucks? Uh, did you earn that kind of money? And he's like, Nick, Nick, Nick, you know, it's all about the upsells. And he walked me through this process. Like the $5 thing has gotta be, you know, something pre-written prerecorded, you know, something you can deliver in two seconds if people want your time, like, okay, uh, then they can buy that in the gig extras or these custom offers. And it was really compelling. It was like, well, you know what, let me, let me try my hand at this. Speaker 2 00:05:15 Let's see what I can put out there. And so I've sold a handful of digital products on Fiverr. I ended up doing some freelance nonfiction book editing through Fiverr. I had one gig that was actually really fun and actually pretty successful was like, I will turn on the screen recorder and do like a five minute video feedback overview of your website in terms of usability, SEO, uh, converted rates, stuff like that. Yep. And, uh, and that was a ton of fun that ended up kind of going medium, uh, viral for a period of time. And it landed on the first page of Fiverr and it got flooded with orders and it was kind of a blast looking through that. And actually through that, um, ended up meeting a handful of other, uh, people who've become kind of long-term internet friends as a result like, Hey, you know, we connected on. Cool. Speaker 1 00:06:03 Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've never tried any of those kinds of platforms myself. I think. I mean, I don't know, but I think, I think some of the challenges of kind of going on this is like, there's already a bunch of people on there that, and it's how do you kinda, you got you, it's almost like a chicken and egg. You got to get reviews to kind of get to appear higher in the search, but you can't get their reviews until you people like working with you. So, um, there was even like that with when you, when you try that out or Speaker 2 00:06:30 It is obviously this was years ago. There's not, it was not the level of competition that there is now, but it was still a well-established platform with plenty of entrenched competition. The beauty of it is, you know, as more and more buyers discover it, right? The pie keeps getting bigger. So that frees up some space more and more niches. So maybe you go after like a slightly longer tail keyword in your gig description or your title. And then the people who have thousands of reviews are probably swamped with work. And so they may, you may get to the checkout page and it says, well, okay, a time to delivery is two weeks. It's you're like, well, I kind of want it a little bit faster. And so that always, especially on that platform as kind of kept a steady, revolving door for new talent, because okay, the people who are well-reviewed and show up prominently in search are getting flooded with orders. And so I'm like, well, if I want it done a little bit faster, I've got to take my chance on this guy with, uh, with fewer reviews. Speaker 1 00:07:29 Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Makes sense. So immediately jumped shiny objects into you're talking about something. It could be really great to, to, to introduce yourself and like to tell, um, tell the audience like a little bit about your background, kind of, you know, where it all began, uh, from back in college and you know, to where you are today. Speaker 2 00:07:50 Yeah. We can go back to the very early days. I'll try and give the quick rundown of it. I was bit by the entrepreneurial bug, uh, through a house painting internship that I had in college, where at the end of the summer, they published a blog post on the company's internal blog that said, if you're reading, this would probably ruined your life. And I was like, oh, I'm clicking on this title. And it was like, well, you had your first taste of working for profits and not wages. You had your first taste of being in charge of your own schedule. You had your first taste of kind of like running the show, a probably not going to be able to work corporate for somebody else. And that turned out to be, uh, pretty much true in my life, but it did end up getting a corporate gig, uh, following college, uh, where, you know, had no desire to climb the corporate ladder. Speaker 2 00:08:32 It was not the person who hated my job or anything like that, but just like I wanted to do my own thing. Like this painting thing had ruined my life. So, uh, in my case, that was a footwear comparison shopping site was kind of the first, uh, official side hustle for me. And that was the vehicle that, uh, three years of nights and weekends later, let me quit that corporate job and have been a full time side hustler full-time entrepreneur ever since on the side from the shoe business, I started a comparison, actually a review platform for, uh, outsourcing companies that was called virtual assistant assistant.com, which sold at the end of 2020 and a, and then a couple of years after that, I started the side hustle nation blog and the side hustle show podcast. And that's really been the primary focus for the last few years. Speaker 1 00:09:21 Cool. So, um, yeah, tennis. Um, so, uh, you know, two sniper was a, an affiliate site, right? So, um, if I, if I'm correct, um, Speaker 2 00:09:31 Yes, it would pull in the pulling the catalogs, pulling the data feeds. If those are still a thing from all the different, um, retailers, Amazon Zappos, all these other stores, they would pay a commission on orders that were processed, uh, or rather refer it through the site. So we tell you where you can find you, you know, the best price on your next pair of shoes. And I naively thought like this could be my thing. Like I could be the guy who sells shoes on the internet and just, you know, run this thing forever. Um, but like a lot of businesses kind of had a finite lifespan in that it, it played, uh, never did anything, uh, to speak of in the terms of, in terms of organic traffic, but relied heavily on, uh ad-words and kind of played in that margin between the cost of traffic and what that traffic was worth in terms of affiliate commissions. And over the course of 6, 7, 8, 9 years, however long I had the site, you know, that margin got narrower and narrower and narrower, um, and ultimately became, uh, you know, more trouble than it was worth to keep it up and running some thankfully at that time had those other couple of projects to, to focus on. Speaker 1 00:10:39 Interesting. Yeah. I mean, I I've, I have followed kinda of heard you on other podcasts and he talking about, um, uh, shoe sniper. Yeah. And it was, I found it really fascinating that you're, you know, you're using page ad words or things, um, to, uh, to, to drive traffic back then, because, you know, I guess the cost of Edwards was cheaper than that. And like you say, that might each can't do that pretty, pretty much, unless it's very high priced affiliate products, you just can't do that these days for, for most things. Um, it really interesting that you were able to back then. Speaker 2 00:11:10 Yeah. I mean, it was this fun math game of like, well, if he could buy traffic for 25 cents a click and it's worth 50 cents on average, I'll make that trade all day long. And what's interesting is I did an experiment with ad-words again, uh, last year kind of in spring of 2020, and I was able to get clicks under 10 cents, but the campaigns didn't really scale. And then, you know, in the months, since then, without any tweaks, they've kind of dried up. And so I'm not, not too versed in what the, you know, what the more modern ad-words game might look like. Speaker 1 00:11:43 Yeah. Yeah. Cool. For sure. Um, tell us a little bit about virtual assistant assistant then. I don't think I've really heard about that, that project before. Speaker 2 00:11:52 Yeah. This was a little side project, actually a really important side project of mine. This is my first, um, first attempt at WordPress as a CMS, like rather than just a blogging platform. This was my first, um, social media. Like my first tweets were through this site, my first YouTube videos. Um, my first email list, like all sorts of really important, you know, building blocks of online business type of stuff. Um, but this was a directory and review platform for outsourcing companies that was born from my own, um, hiring, uh, question marks in the shoe business. Like, well, I need some help in running this. It's not necessarily rocket science on a day to day, but how do I know, what do these companies are legit? How do I, where do I find qualified help for this? And at that time, there was not a lot out there, but I could see that it was, this is still several years, post four hour workweek, like the term virtual assistant wasn't new, but it was, you know, I guess I was a beneficiary of a rising tide of interest in that space, much. Speaker 2 00:12:51 Like I've been a beneficiary of a rising tide of interest in the side hustle space, but, um, trying to crowdsource, uh, legit reviews of these different platforms. So anytime somebody would, uh, you know, tweet these companies names, I'd have Google alerts set up for these company names and I would reach out to those people, Hey, would you mind dropping in a review on this site? Or if they'd already written something like, would it be okay to like reword this and post this with your permission, just trying to like build up that initial momentum of, of user generated content. And let's say it ended up being that was like the four hour workweek type of business where over the long run didn't require a ton of maintenance, but at the same time, my fear was if I left it in that state of benign neglect, uh, especially after COVID and the school was shut down and like the work time was so much more limited. Like, I don't know, like you'd hate to show declining revenue and all of a sudden your valuation goes way down. So ended up exiting that one last year. Speaker 1 00:13:48 Cool. And how old was that one monetized Speaker 2 00:13:51 That was monetized through affiliate says kind of a lead gen model. So there's a little bit of display ads, a little bit of, uh, you know, the featured listings that you see in a lot of directories and then mostly, uh, mostly lead gen. Speaker 1 00:14:05 Okay, cool. So you, you, you, you, you go in and go out and got private, uh, affiliate deals with the VA companies, essentially. Speaker 2 00:14:16 Yeah. And yeah, most of them were private. We've probably limited the competition in that space, which was kind of cool. And even for the companies that didn't have any sort of affiliate program, we would still create profile pages for them. Um, and let, let people drop in reviews. And some of those ended up ranking really well. And it's kind of frustrating cause it's like, well, you know, all else being equal, I would still like to have that traffic versus a competitor because at the bottom of the page, you could say, well, here's some alternatives that you might consider. Here's how this compares to this other service. Um, by the way, you know, you should opt in for our email list. You know, maybe if you find this service helpful, you tell a friend there's all sorts of reasons to pick up that traffic since it was, uh, you know, it was organic and relatively inexpensive to create that content. Speaker 1 00:15:00 Awesome. Awesome. Adam, and she's sniper like, so in the end you just kind of gave that up. Did you cause, cause cause of the margins you didn't sell that or anything that just kind of went by the wayside cause the, see it doesn't exist anymore. I checked before the, Speaker 2 00:15:14 Well the cool, yeah. The domain was active for several years after I kind of let it go give it back to the development team, uh, you know, hindsight. Right. I had wished I had departed at, at the peak. I mean that would have been a very sizeable, uh, exit, even if you discounted my own time at managing it, it was, uh, it was never as hands-off as, as maybe it could have been. Cause it was like, well, footwear inventory was constantly turning over and you'd have pages where like, well there's only like a size 17 left in stock. Like, okay, that's not a great user experience. So there was, there was a lot of like daily management and upkeep, uh, related to it. But man, it would have, um, had, I don't even, I didn't even think he could, like, I probably didn't know about, you know, selling websites or empire flippers or flip out or something at that time, but it would have been, uh, it would've been a nice payday had I had the foresight, although, you know, I say that, but I didn't have the next project lined up yet. So I wouldn't know, you know, what would I do after this payday? Speaker 1 00:16:15 Yeah, sure, sure. Cool. And then, um, kind of, I guess as a side hustle as well, you started working on side hustle nation, um, and uh, and yeah. Started working on that. Right. So, um, yeah, so that's, that's kind of what you do today, is that kind of your main source of income today? Speaker 2 00:16:35 That is the main source of income today. Um, the three pillars of the revenue stool, so to speak, uh, for the last few years have been, uh, sponsorships on the podcast, the side hustle show, which started very much, like you said, as a part-time, you know, experiment, you know, $50 mic in the living room kind of thing, you know, see if anybody will tune in. Uh, but sponsorships on the show have become a significant income stream, uh, affiliate revenue through the blog and email list website and email list. And then the third leg of the stool has historically been my own side hustle, experiments, the other affiliate sites, the, uh, self publishing stuff in the early days, the fiber freelancing, the, uh, you know, eBay and Amazon flipping type of stuff. Um, but lately in the spirit of full disclosure, that third leg of the stool has become pretty short after exiting the VA site. Speaker 1 00:17:31 Awesome. Okay. Okay. That makes, that makes sense. So, um, I guess you haven't really got any other affiliate sites on the, on the go on the other side at the moment or have you Speaker 2 00:17:42 Not right now? I mean, I'm always like, ah, should I, I don't know if I'd want to start something completely from like maybe find somebody else's like neglected project that has a little bit of age, a little bit of domain authority. Maybe they got some links, maybe they got some content, like, get it, get a pass the sandbox period versus starting completely from scratch. Um, yeah, that's probably the route that I would go today. I dunno. Speaker 1 00:18:06 Yeah. Yeah. And let's tell you the way that Adam I'm co-founder of niche website builders, we only start with, uh, with age domains these days. Um, so we found a cup, we saw Sage domains ourselves for amp, for our clients. Um, and w we, we never start from scratch just for that same reason. It's just so slow going and, and, you know, and each domain is just a really cheap way of buying backlinks as well. You know, backlinks either take lots of time or lots of money to acquire. Um, if you buy a domain for a thousand dollars, you might get 300 backlinks for that. And, uh, uh, yeah, 300, 300 referring domains. And it's now, if you think about it that way, it's a really cheap way of actually buying backlinks and getting you started really quick. So, um, yeah, Speaker 2 00:18:47 One, um, kind of maybe one interesting exception to that, and we've seen it illustrated through a couple of different angles on the site. So I'll show is this kind of like, I call it like the modern comparison shopping, modern, modern comparison affiliate site, where they'll take, you know, this product versus this product, this brand versus this brand and create this like super in-depth post about that. And because so few people have gone to that length, like these kind of long tail terms, but we've seen people from new domains go from zero to 20 grand a month revenue wise, like within a year, which is die. I don't know, like unheard of for me and like the blogging world, uh, to be able to just, you know, wheel something into existence and, you know, build it in, in a lot of cases, try to skate where the puck is going, uh, in Wayne Gretzky, Wayne Gretzky speak. Like I don't, there may not be a lot of search volume about this today, but I can see this is an up and coming brand in this space. And so I'm going to skate where the puck is going, create their content in the hopes that it becomes popular, or they have some ad money to throw towards it and they build up some awareness such that people start to search for it in the future. Speaker 1 00:19:57 Yeah. That's great. Yeah. That's great. I mean, we definitely, yeah, we definitely do see examples of that. Um, uh, where you can kind of do that. If you're targeting, you know, low competition, informational kind of content, um, uh, you know, you just, you just, uh, you just increases your chances with it, with a nature remainder. You're more likely that that's more likely to happen. It's much more regular that that does happen. Um, but like you say, if you're finding, if you're skating where the puck is going, like you say, have you got any examples of any guests that you can, you kind of recall any that, that have done that exact kind of thing? Speaker 2 00:20:26 Yeah. One was Tammy Smith her say is called fit healthy mama.com where she is reviewing kind of like at home gym equipment at home fitness equipment. And the other one these guys have done really, really well. I mean, Tammy's doing awesome too. Um, but fin versus fin.com is, uh, Alex and Healey where they're reviewing a bunch of direct to consumer brands and, um, you know, with that kind of comparison format and they have gone to 20 grand a month revenue wise in the first year, a year later, they were at 45 50. And I mean, they're paying writers to do this stuff and they have some expenses and they're, you know, a team. So they have a couple of people to split that, but it was just seemed that seemed to be really fast attraction on a new, on a new project. Speaker 1 00:21:16 Yeah, for sure. We've had them on, on this show actually as well. The customers has, uh, at least website builders too. Um, yeah. So yeah. We've yeah. We're, we're familiar with them. Yeah, yeah. We've had them, we've had them on, so yeah, that, yeah. They're not a great job with that for sure. Cool. So, I mean, you know, you mentioned that your, you know, you kind of wanted you weren't, you started, you tried out the corporate life and it kind of just wasn't for you, but like w you know, what is the driving, what's the thing that keeps you going, what is your drunk driving force between of, for, you know, just continuing to want to do your own thing and, um, and just, yeah. Stay out of that corporate, but what, what, what kind of keeps you going? Speaker 2 00:21:59 Yeah, it was very, it was very like selfish motivation early on, like w w what really rubbed me the wrong way. It was just like having to ask my boss for vacation and not even, and he was never even the person who said no, but it was just like, Hey, in a couple of months, could I take like this Friday off? Like, it didn't even have a ton of vacation to burn it just for whatever reason as a cool adult. Like it just like, oh, I don't even control my own time. I'm not even in charge of my own calendar that just rubbed me the wrong way, but it's a very selfish motivations early on, um, today, you know, as long as I'm making enough not to have to go get a real job, like, um, happy camper, I get to do work that I enjoy talk to interesting people spread the gospel of this lower risk brand of entrepreneurship. It is super exciting to always be unearthing and hearing stories of just creative ways that people found to make extra money. It just lights me up and then getting to, uh, again, uh, optimistically, hoping for the return of conference travel and meetups and all that stuff like getting to meet those listeners in person is an absolute joy. Even as an introvert, I find it gives me so much energy. So that's kind of the stuff that keeps me going today. Speaker 1 00:23:12 Yeah, for sure. I think most people, once you had the taste of it, they'll, they'll never go back. And I look, you know, I worked at Microsoft for 10 years, so I definitely get the corporate, the corporate run and, and worked for a big company. And, you know, I look back at the time and effort I put in there and it just seems, you know, I was just doing it for my career as the right thing to do. It's just what we were supposed to do. I still got friends now who work at Microsoft and other corporates. And, you know, sometimes some of them are like working evenings and weekends, like, yeah. Are they paying extra for that now? Like, you know, you know, you know, are you doing this for you? Like, uh, you know, I look at it now and I think that's crazy, but like, you know, I remember being in it myself and it was, it just felt normal. Speaker 1 00:23:51 I think once you've had a taste of it. And you know, that the more you put in the more you get out as an entrepreneur, like, uh, um, it seems like alien now to, to be doing that for somebody else. Right, right. Cool. So, um, one question I have for you is like, have you found, like there's been an increased interest or that interest, I dunno, that's where the, through people listening to your podcast or visiting your site, or just, just anecdotally you found that there's been an increasing interest in kind of people starting side hustles that during this pandemic, Speaker 2 00:24:27 Uh, early on there did seem to be an interest in, um, inside hustles in general. I had saw surprisingly, maybe not surprisingly, I started a podcast listenership, it take a pretty, pretty noticeable dip, uh, in the early months of the pandemic, just as like the whole world stopped commuting. And I was like, wow, I guess, listening time anymore. Uh, so that was, um, you know, a little bit of a dip, which has since rebounded. Um, but it, it wasn't like, oh, you know, the business doubled in a month or anything like that. Um, you know, by virtue of all this new search traffic or anything like that, um, I think where I tend to see bigger spikes is just around the first of the year. It seems like, okay, new year's resolution, this is the, this is going to be the year. I've only get my, uh, you know, a side business off the ground. That's where I tend to see bigger spikes rather than, you know, March, April, may, uh, of last year. Speaker 1 00:25:22 Yeah. So all the traffic's going to you and gyms at that time of year. Yeah. Cool. Um, so I also noticed, yeah, like, uh, the, um, you mentioned it was the middle of go about doing the self-publishing. I didn't, I didn't realize until I was just doing a little bit of research before the call that you'd written a whole bunch of books right. Um, that you can kind of buy on Kindle. Um, yeah. So, yeah. Tell us about those. Speaker 2 00:25:49 There's a lot of fun. I, you know, as a, as a piece of the revenue pie, like it's a pretty small sliver, but it's, it's fun for me. I've always considered myself to be a writer, uh, actually thought of myself as a writer first and a podcast or a reluctant second. Um, but the self-publishing game, what opened my eyes to it was, um, my very first book was called virtual assistant assistant. It was a companion to the VA a directory site or the review site. And my theory was, cause I didn't want to say it look like pretty crappy. And it's like first version. Um, my theory was, well, I don't want to invest in a redesign. Uh, so I'll write, so I'll write this book and then people will come to the site. They will forgive the crappy design and they say, well, he wrote the book on the topic. Speaker 2 00:26:35 He must know what he's talking about. Um, but then the surprising thing was the, and then through the magic of affiliate link tracking, I see, you know, that people went and bought the book. And then I got my first author royalty check for, or a royalty direct deposit for like $46 and 47 cents or something. I was like, I I'm a professional author. Like somebody, somebody half, I think it was like, so it was like some of the proudest, some of the proudest money that I'd ever made. Uh, but the surprising thing was the exact opposite happened. People went to Amazon first search for virtual assistant, found the book, read the book, then came to the website rather than finding the website and then discovering the book and then going to Amazon to buy it. And that really opened up my eyes to the power of Amazon as a search engine and this like whole buy buttons theory, as we talk about on the side hustle show where it's like, if you want to make extra money, go where the cash is already flowing. Speaker 2 00:27:29 And if you have ideas and if you have expertise like Amazon is one of these huge search engines that you can't really ignore. And even more than Google, it's a search engine of buyers. You know, people have their credit cards saved in there. I think it's a really valuable place to be. So I've added several more books to the portfolio. Uh, since then I'm working on another title at the moment called one K 100 ways, which features a bunch of stories, uh, from the side hustle community on different ways. People are making extra money. And it's just, it's a fun exercise to try and organize your thoughts and put this out into a little package. And then each of those kind of serves as this mini digital asset that's out there in the world, kind of doing your bidding, earning passive royalties and introducing people to your brand. Speaker 1 00:28:16 Very good. Very good. Yeah. I guess, is that an almost unmeasurable kind of impact that these books I have as well, maybe not indirectly in sales, but kind of like yeah. Life them coming over and finding you on the podcast or the site and I'm kind of taking it from there. So yeah. Pretty cool. I mean, yeah. I'd love to be a driver. I'm not a writer at all. I'd love to, I'd like, I like the, the ranting idea of, of being an author, I think, but, um, just, uh, yeah, I can't write, I just can't write, Speaker 2 00:28:45 Well, you could do, uh, your podcast or you could do like speak to text or something like that and clean it up there's ways around it. And this last book is w was, was theoretically going to be a crowdsourced, but I thought it was going to be the easiest project in the world, put out this questionnaire to the audience, you know, have everybody fill it in. The challenge was, you know, some people gave you 150 words in other people, gave you 1500 words and you're like, well, this is a way more compelling story, but like, how do you, and you sort of just a lot of back and forth trying to like massage this to the point where it was like, you know, everything was relatively consistent and coherent, um, and get everything kind of cleaned up in that way, but different ways to do it. And you know, some of them, a lot of the books kind of borrow heavily from stories from the podcast. So it's not, you're not starting completely from a blank page if you've already got this stuff summarized or transcribed, you know, pulling quotes from here to support idea one, two or three. Um, and I'd love to see a book from you, lots of ways around it. Speaker 1 00:29:45 Maybe I'll maybe I'll do it. Yeah. Maybe I'll let you know if I do, maybe I'll find a way. Cool. It'd be really cool to talk a little bit about some of the, some of the guests you've had on the show, some of the kind of reminisce on some of the projects that kind of stick in your memory. I mean, I'll start with kind of what, what you find the most kind of memorable and that's probably unfair. It's probably lots, I would say, but for me, if I talk about the one that I have found most memorable from your shows was, um, was Rosemarie Groner, um, from busy budgeter.com. So I think you've had an arm hole R that you've had on. Yeah, but I remember the, I think I remember the first one and then the follow up, which was, he was making, I think within a year she was making $5,000 a month and she was, I can't remember the traffic. It was something like 400,000 visitors or 200,000. I can't remember exactly the number. This is one, the traffic lottery on, Speaker 2 00:30:37 On the back of Pinterest. Speaker 1 00:30:39 Okay. That's right. It was all Pinterest trap or majority of it was Pinterest traffic. Right. Um, yeah. And then a year later she was, had the same amount of traffic. I think it was about a year later she had the same amount of traffic and, um, but she had diversified the way she was getting income and adding revenue streams. And I think she wasn't even making 20, 20 grand a month. Um, and I think that was probably five or six years ago only. Yeah. So yeah, first five or six years ago, I think. And I remember that that's kind of when I was just finding first exploring this world of blogging and making money online. I just, I remember that stuck in my mind, like, wow, like, you know, it's, it's real and it can be real money to, you know, yeah. Her, Speaker 2 00:31:22 Her business is, is kind of a cool example because of that evolution that she's had. Right. So she, uh, she talks about budgeting for busy moms. Um, she talks about getting organized at home and she talks about recipes and stuff, kind of like a, not atypical mom blog, but like leaning towards this, you know, organization and, and money budgeting side of things. But it really interesting evolution from, you know, relying heavily on ad drive media vine, like, or ad sense probably in its very early days, like just display ads. Right. Um, and then the evolution was over to affiliate stuff. And I was like, you know, Rosemary, like, you know, this sounds like a horrible audience. Like people who don't have any money like this frugal type of audience, like what, you know, what kind of affiliate stuff do you have? He's like, Nick, it's a great audience because they're all trying to save money. Speaker 2 00:32:10 And so you can play the substitution game. Like here's what you're currently using. Here's a better, faster, cheaper option click here to buy. Now. It's like, all right. That makes sense. Um, and then she's since evolved even further to creating her own products, um, on the side of that. So she's got some interesting marketing funnels that are all, uh, operating in the background on different things there. So from display ads to affiliates to your own products, and it's an evolution that you see, uh, from a lot of different sites. So I think it's kinda cool to see her example there. Speaker 1 00:32:44 Yeah, for sure. For sure you can. Yeah. I mean, the sites that exist today and like, I'm sure she's got a large audience now, um, that she can kind of tap into and, and mailing lists and things where even, even with Pinterest, like you're, you're at the mercy of algorithm changes and stuff. Um, so yeah, you can't live on it. Yeah. It's like Google in that way, you can't live on it for you. Can't really guarantee it's going to stay there forever necessarily. But, um, once you've got your own audience, like you've done yourself, um, then it's, it's yours. You own it. Right. So nobody can take that away. Speaker 2 00:33:21 Um, any other, uh, favorites, uh, from the, from the archives? I mean, there's, there's a lot, both in the online and offline space, curious which ones stood out to you. Speaker 1 00:33:31 Um, that's, that's the, um, that one stuck out to me because of it, because it was in my space and blogging, but I do like to listen to ones that are kind of just completely like completely like different, but like just cause I'm kind of business I'll probably never get into. Um, but I'm just like really interested like that, that they made it. I mean, I'm interested to hear from you kind of what was kind of, what's the one that always sticks out in your memory, like as the kind of most memorable kind of guests that you've had on the show? Speaker 2 00:33:59 Oh my gosh. It's like trying to pick a favorite kid. Um, Speaker 1 00:34:02 So disappointing 400 other people, right by saying, yeah. Speaker 2 00:34:08 And, um, we had like the pooper scooper gal who was, you know, building recurring revenue through this local, uh, pet waste removal business. We have, um, one of my favorites was Matt Boke knock who was repairing motorcycles in his garage as his side hustle as just straight hours for dollars service-based business. But what Matt did that was, I thought was super cool. It was just, you know, set up the camera in the corner of the garage. He starts filming himself, doing the repairs. So now he's got content for YouTube. Um, and now, you know, several years later into the business, like the service segment of it, like the actual labor hours for dollars business is a tiny fraction of what he makes from YouTube ads and affiliate and sponsors and, you know, selling digital, you know, engine rebuild videos and all that stuff, which I thought was really cool example of, um, you know, investing this speculative time upfront to try and build this time leveraged piece of the income pie. Speaker 2 00:35:10 Uh, so here's the one that always stands out to me. Um, are there like, just off the walk, we had a woman who was like, oh, the hot tub guy. Oh my gosh, this is awesome. So earlier this year, um, I had done an episode on the scale who was basically starting a trucking company, like renting out semi-trucks for profit. And I was like, Hey, I kind of want to do that. Like, that sounds fascinating. But I said like, if you have any other unconventional ideas, let me know. And so this guy, Steve high school teacher in New York reaches out and he's like, I think I got one for ya. Uh, for the past few years I've been renting out portable hot tubs and I've got this fleet of, he called it his fleet of like 25 or 30 of these things. They're booked almost all the time. And you know, I'm making thousands of dollars a month doing this. And I was like, I never knew this was a thing I never knew this was, uh, an opportunity that existed, but he, uh, he had this all the whole process dialed in and he was doing great with that. Speaker 1 00:36:08 Cool. Sorry. Yeah. I don't remember either of those for some reason, but yeah, that's uh, that's uh, that sounds cool. So, uh, I mean, I mean, I guess, um, I think you kind of asked this question, actually. I was like, which one was like the biggest kind of shock success was one of the questions I wanted to ask you, like your ones, one of the things that you just thought, like when you first read the title of the email or whatever, it was like, how is this ever gonna make money? Like, and then, then, then suddenly out of it is something just born out of something you just didn't think could make money. Speaker 2 00:36:43 Yeah. We think of, you know, the big three business models of, you know, sell a service, sell a product or sell content, you know, sell an audience in a way. Um, and there's all sorts of different ways to go about it. If you look through the lens of like, uh, uh, yeah. Of the problem, right? So if the, if a dirty house is the problem, there are cleaning services. You can hire somebody to come clean your house. There are cleaning products. If you want to do it yourself, you can buy this special spray or a new vacuum or new mop or something. And then there's plenty of cleaning content. You can learn on YouTube, how to declutter your home and, you know, do all this stuff the right way to scrub a floor or something. So lots of different ways to tackle the solution, but it kind of all starts with, okay, what's the problem that I want to solve. Who's the audience that has that problem that I want to serve. And that kind of dictates where you want to Speaker 1 00:37:35 Go. Yeah. Yeah. So is there anybody you can kind of think of that, you know, just, they just, uh, it's surprising that they could even make money out of it out of their, the hustle they were, they were doing like, but, but I found an inventive and ingenious way to be able to do that. I'm scrolling Speaker 2 00:37:53 Through my, um, my list. I mean, we've had people who were blogging about house plants and, you know, the, the paleo diet for dogs was a surprising one. Um, you know, all of the resale and resale stuff. Uh, we had a gal who started with, you know, a 50 cent purchase and just kept parlaying that into the next flip into the next flip. Um, one of the other ones that I, that I really liked was kind of in the, in the service arena, in the consulting arena. Um, and this, this could be applied to, you know, website building and content too. But, uh, this Paul miners out of Australia, um, you know, was, was on the earlier edge of adoption for, you know, some popular software services like pipe drive, like a sauna. Uh, and so what he would do would was create these YouTube videos, like how to do blank in a sauna or how to use this feature in a sauna or pipe drive. Speaker 2 00:38:55 Right. And he'd say, you know, at the start of the video, Hey, I'm Paul, I'm a Sonic consultant and here's how to do blank in the sauna. And so he's capturing all this search traffic for, um, for people searching for, you know, how to solve this problem in this specific tool. Um, and by virtue of putting himself out there and being somewhat early to that platform, uh, you know, he picked up a bunch of video views, but he also picked up some really high value consulting clients who had hired him in, you know, could you train our team to do this? Like, okay, what's, what's your day rate. And, you know, we'll do this all remotely, uh, you know, for these startup companies are using this. I thought that was really cool. And you could apply the same strategy, like in your, you know, niche site building, like just trying to figure out the questions that people are asking. Speaker 2 00:39:38 I have turned to answer the public, uh, dozens of times like defined CP words. I will go to actually keyword chef.com is a new one that I've been testing. Cause the cool, like wildcard search, it's like how to make money blank and just see like what comes back or how do you start a blank business? Uh, let's see, like, oh, you know, I never would have guessed that, you know, pressure washing was one of the top searches or, you know, and it's you, um, you kind of build out, are you trying to answer those questions? Build out content in that way. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:40:09 Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that show that show with the Assana guy and yeah, that was definitely one where I thought, Hey, you know, I could do that. Just go find like the, you can just fly and be the first to find like a new service that's going to be, that's something that's taken off a new product that's taking off and like they're spinning up a consultancy or a site like for that. I could definitely see how that, because consultant, yeah. I mean, the restaurant has got guests with consultancy. It's like, it's not that scalable. It's not a time for money type thing again, but I could definitely, you know, you could become a very well-paid consultant very quickly in that kind of space. Um, Speaker 2 00:40:44 For sure. Yeah. I sent that one to tear my sister-in-law in particular, who is like was an early adopter of Monday, monday.com. And I was like, just, just do this, like, look, he's giving you the playbook. Like, all you have to do is just copy, just rip this off, except for now that's on it. But for Monday, you know, and he's like, and there's always up and coming new software products, uh, to kind of hit your car too. And we talked to a guy, um, who was like a Salesforce consultant, like work half time making a couple hundred grand a year, um, doing Salesforce consulting. And I was like, that can't be sustainable. He's like, Nick, you don't understand like the ecosystem of users of the software is growing so much faster than the ecosystem of support personnel. Like that's what makes us command these rates. And I was like, uh, that's a really interesting one, but this whole software with a service thing is, uh, is very much an interesting space to play in. If you either have expertise in a particular software yourself, or you have it, uh, you know, you're working on it through your company, or you're just curious about it, you're learning about it. Maybe it's element or maybe it's, uh, you know, some of these other site builders, maybe it's podium, maybe, I don't know, lots of different opportunities there. Speaker 1 00:41:55 Yeah. Cool. Yeah. We'll definitely link to all of these different shows in the, in the show notes for here as well. If anybody wants to go and listen to those. So those ones we've been speaking about, but, um, yeah. Um, at that interest it's now, now you've got my interest into like the SEO usage of using these tools. And I know, um, you said you haven't been reworking on affiliate sites on the site, but you obviously still dabbling and interesting because keyword chef's, um, a pretty new tool actually. Um, it's not been around for that long, so you're kind of still in that world. And so in that space, so tell me a little bit about kind of, um, you know, some of the research methods you go about kind of to find the kind of opportunities and some of the tools you're using and, and, um, is it just for play at the moment as well, or is it you're genuinely looking for opportunities? Speaker 2 00:42:39 It's, it's mostly for us on nation content rather than, um, you know, secondary niche site content, but so then is, uh, is actually a moderator in the cytosol nascent community. So that's how I came, uh, came upon a keyword chef and I was like, oh, this is cool tool. I tested out, um, the, the keyword research process often starts from, uh, like email questions that people get or that people send me. And so I was like, well, okay, if they're asking about this and they, you know, they, uh, they thought it would be better to like email a stranger, uh, on the internet rather than, you know, trying to find the answer on their own. Like I wonder maybe the existing resources that are out there aren't that good, you know, so, okay. So sometimes you get seed keywords from the questions that people ask you, um, I'll get seed keywords from, uh, just like podcast pitches or blog comments on, you know, just other ideas, even, uh, comments within the community. Speaker 2 00:43:40 Like what, what are people working on? And that was like the pressure washing one, they came up. And so some guy had posted, I started this pressure washing company, you know, I bought this used machine for like 200 bucks. I made back by investment on the first house. It was like, I, you know, I did my fair share of pressure washing in college. Like this is kind of a fun, you know, very satisfying thing to go do. Like, I kind of want to learn about this. And so, so a lot of the, um, keyword research, uh, go see like, okay, is anybody else looking for information on this? Uh, if they are, is there, is there a reason to create this content, um, in terms of an affiliate play, an email opt in play, like, what's it w what does it do for you? You know, um, cause I have some content on the site that gets traffic, but that's kind of like, it's almost a standalone piece where it's not really related to anything else. Speaker 2 00:44:30 And so it's like, okay, you get eyeballs, maybe you collect, you know, one, 2% of people who visit that page opt in for your email list, but it's not the best optimized, uh, page in terms of monetization. Yeah. So trying to think, you know, before you go through the effort and energy to create something like, okay, what's it going to, what's going to do for you. Um, and then the second thing, like trying to figure out, okay, how do I, um, build something that's better than what's already out there. And so oftentimes in my case, that's, uh, trying to play the multimedia game either in YouTube or podcast forum. Like, could I go find an expert who has been there done that and, and let them kind of draft a lot of the content in spoken form, uh, and summarize that, uh, in, in the written content. Speaker 2 00:45:18 Um, I dunno, I don't have a, a metric I can mean if it's getting a hundred searches a month. I think that's probably viable for a parent keyword because you get so many long tail variations. Like one of the most popular posts the last year or two has been, uh, like best items to flip for a profit. And so the site through various interviews over the years has articles on flipping cars and flipping sneakers and flipping other random things like flipping websites, you know, so there's a lot of flipping related content. So we did best items to flip. And even though the keyword volume based on all these tools said, it got like, you know, maybe five to 700 searches of my, like, it wasn't a huge number, but then it was like getting 15, 20,000 visits. So it was like, okay, this is, and again, this is an example of a page that isn't super profitable, but it does pick up a lot of traffic and hopefully spiders people into some of these deeper examples, um, on the site. So, um, I don't know if that answers the question, but, uh, there's always, that's, what's cool. I think there's always new keywords popping up. The list of stuff that I should write about is, is growing much faster than the, uh, than the actual volume of content Speaker 1 00:46:36 That's published. It sounds like that consultant analogy again, I guess. Yeah. So, um, yeah. Yeah. So in terms of, um, you know, how you acquire new people for your audience, like how, how would you, where did you say you get that? Is that mostly from, from SEO? Is that word of mouth? Is that just from the podcast? And I kind of think, where do you think you kind of get most of your, you grow your audience? Speaker 2 00:47:03 Yeah, I think it grows in a few different ways. I think it does grow through word of mouth. I think that's probably the most, um, most obvious and most overlooked method of podcast growth. Because if you think about how you discover new shows, probably cause like a friend told you to go check it out. At least it is, uh, in my case. And so trying to, trying to create something that is share-worthy that like somebody would be, would be open to telling their friend about it. Cause I've had that experience on other shows. And I'll tell you anybody who listened, like you need to go listen to Dan Carlin's hardcore history. I know they're like four hour long episodes. I promise it's worth it. It's that good? Good. Um, so you want to kind of deliver that type of experience to your listeners. Um, the second thing is like to make it a compelling enough title. Speaker 2 00:47:50 And I think this is something that I have learned over the years that you get over that initial inertia or hurdle is it's still kind of a pain to download a podcast. And if you have the app, but if it's a new show, I've got to search for the new show, you gotta find the episode I want like, so you've gotta make the title compelling enough that somebody wants to go through those hoops, check out what they're going to get in exchange for that 40 minutes. Cause I was, um, I was a guest on somebody else's show years ago and they're like, they did what you're supposed to do. They were like, Nick, thanks so much for joining us. Your episode is live today. I clicked the link and it's like 33 colon, Nick Loper, like who is going to click on it, what's in it for me, you know, what does this episode even about? Speaker 2 00:48:32 You know, nobody knows who I am. Oh the staff. So I'm trying to come up with that hook and be upfront with that. Like how this person made 10 grand a month, um, renting out hot tub is or what, whatever, you know, whatever it may be. It's like, okay, well that makes, I want to learn. I want to learn more about that. Um, the other let's see other podcast marketing stuff. Um, I do think I have an unfair advantage. Um, but I, I should back up. Um, the other thing that grows podcast listenership is appearing on other relevant podcasts. Um, and so for me, some of the biggest spikes have been appearing on other entrepreneurial shows, but even more so other like personal finance shows where you can kind of come in and you're, you're kind of like on the shoulder of that industry, um, where they're talking about investing and saving money and you can come in and be like, I love investing. Speaker 2 00:49:21 I love saving money, but what if you could earn more money too? And you know, and their hosts do a great job. Well, Nick is your go-to guy for earning more money, go check out side hustle nation. So that's, um, that's been a big where I've seen some big spikes and exposure there, but I think, um, an unfair advantage of the side hustle show versus a lot of other podcasts is paying attention to that SEO stuff where I rank pretty well for posts like side hub or keywords, like side hustle ideas where a lot of the items on that page will reference specific episodes of the show. So hopefully that spiders people in deeper into the content, like same thing with that best items to flip type of post where, um, it will reference, oh, this person was, you can't even think of an example, but like, you know, if they were making the money, buying and selling different things, like go listen to that full episode for more on how they did it. Speaker 2 00:50:12 Um, and so that kind of thing, I think plays a role and on top, and that's just like, kind of the meta example, but also trying to rank for specific posts, like how do we did how to start a junk hauling business or something was one that did well Google for a long time, how to do the reselling on Amazon was one that did well in Google for a long time. And so people are searching for those specific queries. Hopefully they find the show notes, they find that episode and hopefully they're hooked from there and they, uh, they binge on the whole, Speaker 1 00:50:42 Right. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I've definitely been through, yeah. When I first found your show, I definitely binged like from the beginning and all the way through when you come, when you find something like that. And when, especially when you're first getting into this space, I was talking about this with Adam today. Like we've, um, hired somebody recently into the company, um, a marketing person to help us market the business. And, um, you know, he comes from a marketing background and SEO background, but, um, you know, he hadn't, it doesn't really come from a content site affiliate kind of background. And he kinda got that spark in his eyes, like after a couple of days, like, oh yeah, like I could do this. I could like, why haven't I done this before? And like, I think everyone goes through that kind of moment of like realization. Speaker 1 00:51:25 And when you do, it's like, like for me, at least, and I I'm sure for other people, like you find podcasts and you just, you just can't get enough. You just want to read every blog on the blog. You want to listen to every episode I did that with side hustle nation. I did that with Spencer Haws and these pursuits and, and nice lots of PatFlynn stuff. And, and like, you know, you just, once you find, once you realize that, wow, you find this thing, you can't get enough of it. Can you? And, uh, yeah, I definitely your blog, your podcast was in there for sure. Of a binge and stuff, so, Speaker 2 00:51:58 Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. Thanks for, uh, for tuning in, even though it's, it's kind of diverse where it's not, um, it's not a niche pursuits or even, even SPI like focuses mostly on online stuff. There's I find by going a little bit broader, there's almost always something that I can take away and apply to my online operation, even if it's from the hot tub guy or the pooper scooper lady or stuff like that. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:52:25 Awesome. So last, last thing, I guess before we wrap it up, I think you've kind of already alluded to it as like, you know, one of the most rewarding things of doing like the, what you do is that, you know, you, you are, are kind of changing people's lives and like you, you hear from like this nurse and, and they tell you stories about like, they took some of the stuff that you'd spoke about and kind of made it into something. Have you, have you got any kind of examples of people that have kind of, uh, said that they'd been listening to your show and then gone and done something and, and that you can recall, but that, you know, there was, which was it made you feel proud maybe? And like, it was, it was great that they did that. Speaker 2 00:53:02 Yeah, we met, um, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna blank on her name, but we met a gal at, at fin con who came up to me and she was like, oh, I'm making a thousand bucks a month selling a print on demand. T-shirts because of your merge by Amazon episode, I was like, that's awesome. Like, that's a meaningful difference in that person's lives. Uh, we've had, um, in reference to the Rosemary, several people have come out of the woodwork and say, I started my blog after listening to her. And some of those people have gone on to build pretty serious businesses off of that. Lots of people in the Amazon and product flipping space. Um, lots of people, at least in the, in the Facebook group that seemed to be, uh, you know, sharing about their pet waste removal business. Like it's so simple to start, you know, a lot of these kind of like local blue collar type of services. Speaker 2 00:53:52 Uh, another one that was really popular and seem to inspire a lot of action was Chris Schwab's, I think maids. So this was kind of an outsourced, uh, cleaning service, like residential cleaning service, where, um, he kind of played the role of marketer administrator operator and just hired qualified cleaners to go out and do the work, uh, and took a margin on, uh, on their efforts. And that was something that has been replicated. We actually, uh, just did an episode recently with some proteges of his, uh, Anthony and Generika heartsong out of Dallas and they were doing 25, 30 grand a month worth of cleaning bookings. And they said, you know, over the course of seven or 800 jobs, we've had to go out and do three ourselves, you know, swallow our pride, go out and clean the server or go clean the toilets. Cause we, uh, you know, we're double booked or we couldn't find a crew to go out and do this, but they said their revenue split was 60% to the contractor, 40% to them to handle overhead and profit and like cut off all the local marketing type of staff and the insurance and everything that goes into it. Speaker 2 00:55:00 I was like, man, this is something that can be replicated across any number of local type of service businesses where the entrenched competition is operating, you know, from a bygone generation, like you don't fax us for a quote type of stuff. You see it. It's like, no, just make it, make it easy for me, you know? Um, stuff like that. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:55:20 Cool. Yeah. It's pretty cool. Just to know that you kind of had a positive effect on people's lives. Like, you know, I try to tell people about what we do all the time, but running out and portfolios. I just want to, like, I almost feel like everyone should understand and shake people and everyone should want to do it because it's just like, it's a great living and it's a great way to, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's humanly possible for so many people, uh, as a lot of the side houses you talk about, but you know, not everybody wants to hear it and everybody wants to listen. <inaudible> I get that. It's just not everyone's the same, but like, um, um, I, you know, it's just great. When you do hear stories about the positive effect you've had. Cause you think it, it makes, it just makes you feel good and it makes things really worth it. I think so. Yeah. It's Speaker 2 00:56:03 Great. I don't know, you probably get this too, but you get people who are just like, it's not on their radar. Um, you know, they're just, they've fully content whether they can convince themselves of that or not, you know, that their job is their thing. Like, I don't want to be bothered with this on the weekend. Um, you know, it, it's just not on their radar and it's, I don't know. I don't, sometimes I don't get very far with those people. I'm not, I'm not trying to convert anybody, but it's just like it, especially if they are, you know, making a really good salary, it's like, why, why would I spend my evenings doing this stuff? Like, I don't, I don't care. I want to watch Netflix like, okay, it's not for you. You know, that's, that's totally right. Speaker 1 00:56:45 Yeah. I get that. I think, I think just people are different army. Like they they're happy with that. Like they're happy have their life and free. I don't have so much free time in the evenings and weekends right now as they do. So, you know, they're maybe they, maybe they got it right. But, uh, you know, so yeah, I, that's how I get that. I get the other thing is to get you to try and people ask what you do, explain it in LA and then they just say, yeah, I didn't get it. And, uh, yeah, it's, uh, they think it's bad. Maybe it's, I'm just explaining it badly. But like, yeah, some people it's just, it's just not for them. It's just like, it's not technically kind of that way inclined and to understand any, they haven't been in that world. And it's just, it's just a big separation from what they do now. So yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time, Nick. You're the, you're the pro where this podcast and stuff, is there anything that I should have, uh, should have asked you that I haven't asked you? Speaker 2 00:57:43 Uh, no, I think you're, I think you're good. I'm trying to think of anything else that'd be relevant in kind of the niche site space. Um, I mean, one of the things I spend a lot of time on rather than creating brand new content is just updating and refreshing older content. Um, just because it's faster and you can oftentimes earn yourself, you know, a position or to bump up in the ranks just by, you know, updating a few things. Maybe it's adding frequently asked questions, maybe it's adding authority, outbound links, maybe it's adding a new image. Um, it just kind of these little, little tweaks updating the publish date. Um, some of that stuff can buy yourself some more traffic for a relatively low investment rather than creating something completely from scratch and then hoping that it eventually climbed its way onto page one. Speaker 1 00:58:34 Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned that. That's a, that's an awesome point and yeah, and something that we kind of talked to our clients about all the time and, um, we actually, we launched the service. It has very good timing about, uh, about six to six weeks, two months ago, which is a FAQ based kind of service. So we, we mine, we've got a kind of tool that we use that we've kind of created a mind like a frequently asked questions in Google. And, um, then we kind of use some clustering tools to like put them into their own silos into different clusters. And you can either, you can use that either for new articles, but like you said, for updating existing articles, FAQ's are great. So we, you know, it's kind of, and we've got now some clients that are kind of, they've got really established sites and it's almost like the seven bridge where we're like refreshing old content that a year, a few years old. And like every month they did 10,000 words of new content and I barely get to the end and where we go back to the beginning again and start again. We've got so just for, for FAQ's down, uh, it's it's we found really good results with that updating of content with that team. Cool. Okay. Well, uh, thanks again, Nick. Um, if people want to find out more about you with best for them to go, you Speaker 2 00:59:44 Bet. Of course, we'd love to have you tuned into the side hustle show. Um, bark, appreciate all your kind words about the podcast. I know we probably mentioned a dozen different episodes of that. I would love to have you tuned in, in your favorite podcast app over there. Um, other than that side hustle nation.com/ideas is a fantastic place to start. Uh, if you're on the sidelines looking for some, uh, opportunities to get the creative juices flowing, uh, that is my, uh, kind of big list post with no opt-in required. Speaker 1 01:00:14 Awesome. Well, thanks again. I'll let you go. And, uh, well, just enjoy the rest of your day. Thanks again for coming on. Cheers. Good evening. Thanks again for tuning in and I hope you enjoyed the show. If you're listening to the podcast version of this episode, please subscribe on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts, please rate and review. As this will allow us to grow our audience and create more shows like this one. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to be the first to know about any new episodes that we release until the next episode. Goodbye.

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