Morten Storgaard on building a portfolio of sites getting over 1 million page views a month!

April 06, 2021 01:06:30
Morten Storgaard on building a portfolio of sites getting over 1 million page views a month!
Niche Website Builders Show
Morten Storgaard on building a portfolio of sites getting over 1 million page views a month!
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Show Notes

 

In this episode of the Niche Website Builders Podcast, Mark Mars talks to Morten Storgaard of Passive Income Geek and Go Downsize. Morten shares the strategies he uses to find a niche and structure websites.

Morten has been associated with SEO, affiliate marketing, and building content sites for several years. Now, he makes five-figures per month from passive income websites. Also, Morten and his wife, Maria, have a YouTube channel about traveling the world and living in small spaces.   

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 00:00:09 Are you ready to get serious about building content sites and building a profitable business online. Welcome to the niche website builders podcast. We bring you the latest field tested tips, tricks and strategies for building a profitable online asset. We interview industry experts, share customer success stories and reveal our own experiences. Working on hundreds of sites to inspire and motivate you to make something happen. Let's do this. Speaker 0 00:00:41 Welcome to the niche website builders show. Today. I speak to molten store, God, mom, star God, uh, blocks over up passive income geek. Uh, he's been an SEO and being in, in, in kind of affiliate marketing or building content sites for quite a long time now, um, around, uh, 13 or so years, he's built up a portfolio of 15 or so sites. He, he recently started one of his first sites was it was called go downsize, which was about living in tiny spaces. So for example, living in small apartments or on boats, or, uh, you know, all sorts of small, small places that, that you might end up living and, and kind of how you kind of make that work. Um, off the back of that, that kind of started a YouTube channel. Him and his wife, his wife kind of led led on that side of the, of the business. Speaker 0 00:01:26 And they know there's lots of traveling around the world, finding all sorts of different, small places that they could kind of talk about and review them, make part of their site. And that site is kind of really successful. Now, I guess a, I guess a lot of, a lot of views each year makes a decent income. So we talk about that. He's now got a portfolio of around 15 or so sites. So we talk about some of the strategies that he uses in terms of, you know, how does he find an age, topic research, um, you know, how does he structure his sites? Uh, some, some bits on social media and, and, uh, and what he uses to kind of grow his sites from, from, you know, off, off of Google. So, Oh, one last thing I almost forgot. Um, Martin's also recently, uh, spent seven months putting together a course, which kind of detailed some of the strategies he's used over time to kind of build his portfolio. So if that's something you're interested in, we've put the link into the show notes as well. So you can check it out if you want to. I really enjoyed the chat Montessori, nice guy, really good to an easy to talk to. So, um, yeah, hope you enjoy the show. Speaker 1 00:02:28 This episode is brought to you by niche website builders, an agency dedicated to helping people, just like you build profitable content sites, niche website builders are the hands-off content site marketing agency. You always wished existed. It's run by content site marketers for content site marketers, and they help both investors and individuals alike build profitable online properties. They provide a fully outsourced approach to content creation, link building and done for you. Website builds the approach they use on their own six-figure portfolios. For example, their content packages come with a proprietary keyword research process are written by in-house native English speakers formatted using templates proven to convert and uploaded to WordPress with affiliate links added so that all you need to do is hit the publish button, check them [email protected] slash show that's niche, website.builders/show, and fill out the form to get coupon codes for 10% more content, or a 10% discount on links with your first daughter sent right to your inbox. Speaker 0 00:03:34 Welcome to the niche website builders show. Today, I'm speaking with Martin store guard who blogs over at passive income geek and has a thriving YouTube channel. He's been building his own portfolio of websites for over 13 years now and recently released a course which details some of his strategies. So today we're going to dive in to how he has found success, making a living from content sites. Welcome Martin. Speaker 2 00:03:56 Thanks. Thanks. Happy to be here, Mark. Thanks for having me. Speaker 0 00:04:00 Cool. So, um, yeah, like, um, I've been kind of following your following your journey, I guess, in your block and your channel for like some time. So, um, but, um, it would be really good to, to, um, uh, yeah, to that the audience know a little bit more about yourself and your background for those that haven't been following you. Speaker 2 00:04:21 Sure. I started straight out of university, starting an e-commerce site, uh, selling four products for Denmark, Norway, Sweden, just the Scandinavian countries who were so small. So you're kind of staying, if you got to stay a few countries here to get the tea and I get any decent audience. So, uh, so I did that for a couple of years and quickly found myself hitting into the SEO department of the company we had, like we quickly grew to like 10, 15 employees. So I, I kind of, um, got myself out of them. The CEO rode there, found somebody else to run the company. And then I just did the SEO stuff because we also started doing SEO for other companies. I had an investor invest in that company. So he had a lot of other companies that he co owned and that he started and stuff. Speaker 2 00:05:10 So, so we started doing SEO for a handful of bigger companies, and that's really how I got into all this stuff. Um, so after three years I left that company and I kept a few of the SEO customers and just started out as an SEO consultant because I, I guess my main motivation to become an entrepreneur was to have more freedom and have more, you know, financial freedom, give graphical independence. And none of that was like by any stretch of imagination possible with that business. So it was production. We were producing, um, something like this up, you're like photo canvases production, and we have customer service. We had, you know, all of it. So I got out of that and that's, um, got me SEO and client SEO for a long time. I did that seven, eight years I think. So the clients kept getting bigger and bigger and I, um, it also made it harder to leave because the money also got better. Speaker 2 00:06:10 Of course. But I finally pulled the plug on that whole thing, uh, was that two, three years ago. Um, but I, I was phasing out the customers like one by one, um, and then allowing myself more and more time for my own portfolio sites that I build up like similar seamlessly. So as I was doing, like, we can also get back to that, how I ended up at them. I was doing a lot of outreach SEO, um, like five, six, seven, eight years ago. And the budgets allowed me to really just go after the big news media sites and do like huge campaigns. And then eventually I could link to some of my, uh, my own broad sites and use them as a source and include a link here and there. So that there's a lot of synergy there in the beginning. Yeah. So, so now I'm just 100%. Um, my own, I build my own sites have with my own team of writers and editors. And it's just that I recently launched a course, like three months ago. So that's, that's what I'm doing now. I work with my community and my students who can call them and then I, I still run my portfolio of sites. Speaker 0 00:07:15 Okay. So you kind of slowly lost your, the income from your portfolio is building up. You're kind of phasing down your yeah, so that's quite nicely and it's quite nicely as quite a fortunate way to have to do that or to be able to do that is easier than making Speaker 2 00:07:30 Completely removed all the risk because I could see the business getting created, as I said goodbye to the other ones, it was not like a clean cut and I had to, you know, take a huge risk or anything. It was, it was very smooth, I think. Speaker 0 00:07:43 Yeah. So, so, so in terms of some of the synergies with the companies that you were consulting for with your portfolio of sites, so is it, was it coincidence that you ended up, you know, your portfolio sites were in some of the same kind of, I guess they were in some of the same niches or at least some, some of the same areas? Speaker 2 00:08:00 Yeah. So, so, so back in the day I dealt, I did do outreach link building and stuff. And, um, so in order to sometimes include a link to one of my own sites to have some, uh, there could be everything from statistics to bag up the story or anything really. Um, sometimes they just didn't really care. You could just write about anything and then through the link. So, so I started to do some pretty broad sites, so I could come from different angles. So I started pretty big tech site, like then many years ago, um, because I mean a general tech side talking about everything, you can pretty much always include something there when you're doing something around e-commerce. So it was a lot of e-commerce clients, but also really just a lot of different Speaker 0 00:08:44 That's pretty nice, actually. That's nice because you could, you could actually write content for knowing that it would fit perfectly with whatever they're doing and get a link. So, yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. Cool. So, um, I guess it'd be cool. It'd be cool to talk some about, about some of your sites that you've kind of built over the years and I have to like name any of them, but I know that some of them are public at least, um, like go downsize is probably the most well-known one, um, the longest day. Speaker 2 00:09:10 Yeah. It's, it's the big one that I share on the channel. I have all the big ones as well, but I also have a pretty decent Danish, uh, take as one of the bigger Danish take sides. We were only like 6 million people. So, so it doesn't get that big over here, but yeah. Speaker 0 00:09:26 Yeah. Cool. So, yeah, so yeah, let's say let's go into what those kinds of, um, go downstairs first, then it tells a bit, little bit of the backstory of that one. Speaker 2 00:09:36 Yeah. So it's, it kind of started out of a passion. My wife had for interior design and my wife was studying architecture and we were thinking about starting and more like a traditional affiliate site. And I was thinking about what could we do, find something where that's a pretty good, um, deal of products to mention and talk about, and also where I could see some future growth and stuff. So we decided to go into a furniture also because it was pretty untouched. I knew probably the conversion rates would be pretty bad, but then again, some of these products are just insanely expensive. So getting a few percentage here and there could definitely add up. So we did that, restarted it, and eventually, uh, initially more like we just wanted to do more like a catalog site, just showcasing and showing people like different Roundup of posts, different types of furniture, because nobody really did this. Speaker 2 00:10:31 And so the focus there was space saving furniture because we've been living in small city apartments and arteries, and Maria was really interested in that. So, so that was the start. And then we quickly started writing about tiny houses and we eventually got into our being because there's also, um, the space where you have a small space where you need to fit everything. And also boning because Maria was also designing a few boats, um, interior designs and hotels and stuff. So there's just a lot. So it's started to grow bigger as we started mentioning into all these verticals. So that's where it is today. I think now it's, I think this last month it's around 600,000 page views and it's a low season now because boating an RV and also some other travel related stuff is, is spiking in the summer. So I'm expecting to hit a million page views this summer. I'm pretty excited about that. Speaker 0 00:11:28 Yeah. And how long did you say it's been running for now that, that project? Speaker 2 00:11:31 Yeah, these are the numbers that I should know. Right. I think it's, I think it's age years, it might be seven or nine, but it's, it's around Speaker 0 00:11:40 Corey. What have you done in terms of content over that time? Like, you know, how, how much content is on there? Speaker 2 00:11:46 Yeah. I was in the beginning, I was writing everything and I mean, I'm, I'm not a native English speaker. So the initial content was just, I ended up deleting most of it again. So it was kind of a lung start. It was the first site within an English and I wrote everything myself. So eventually I onboarded just one writer. She was very, very good. And I think I was just really lucky there and she's still working with me and helped me build up the business. Um, so now it's, it's a pretty large team of writers across these verticals. So I, so I haven't done any writing on the side for a very long time. It's 100%, uh, I would say it's outsourced, but to my own team of writers and editors. So it's, it's in-house you can say, Speaker 0 00:12:28 So you, I guess you've built up quite a bit of content over the, over the years on that site now they see. Speaker 2 00:12:32 Yeah. I think it's approaching, I think we're around 850 articles on the site. Yeah, Speaker 0 00:12:39 Pretty good. Uh, and I guess you say you've already got cold summoned to late. It sounds like if you go back and refresh a bunch of content too, or is it just once it's written, it's written there. Speaker 2 00:12:50 Yes. Some of it, but not too much. It's um, what can you say, I'm going pretty fast right now this year. So I don't look back too much. I'd probably be a good return and having somebody to go over the whole concept, but I don't know if I actually did, but then that was more because I had, I found out that I had a few writers who were not knowledgeable enough about voting and our being and a few all of the categories. So I actually decided, because somebody reached out to me and showed me an article sitting on my own side, that was just pure Roberts. He thought it was satire, but it was because there was this so horrible. And I didn't know, because I don't know a thing about boating and I thought these guys were good writers. So I ended up getting rid of these writers in that category, finding some better ones. And then I hired two voting engineers, like, um, really, really cool old folks. We know, definitely know their way around the boat. And they fact check all of these articles and made sure that it's up-to-date. So I did do a pretty extensive, uh, audit of, I think, couple of hundred articles and all I'd also did that on a few other sides. So it was, it was a pretty important lesson, I think, to, um, to not buy your content too cheap to really vet the writers. Speaker 0 00:14:10 Okay. So these guys, they're not writing for you, but they did think out basically, or just fact checking it. That's cool. Speaker 2 00:14:16 Yeah. They're more like, I call them fat chiggers. So they go in and they change what needs to be changed. And if it, uh, if it requires a complete rewrite, they will also do that. So if they are up for it, I want to keep them as writers. But mostly they're not really interested in that. They're more just coming for checking the facts. So I pay them on an hourly, hourly basis because they don't read it. Right. How did Speaker 0 00:14:38 You find them? Speaker 2 00:14:40 Yeah, it was kind of interesting because this guy reached out to me, Scott had told her about, and so I actually, I, it took me a few days to figure out what to answer this guy, because obviously had a proper mentor that I needed to solve that I didn't know I had. And, um, so I decided to write him a really kind email back and thanking him for putting it to my attention. And then he's used a little bit, he was, he was kinda rude. I would say the language was a little harsh and that you might never was because he was, he was a professional voter and now he had a huge YouTube following and there was already a Facebook group. I think he had like 30,000 people following him and he's been writing for the major publication. So there was just no way I could afford him because we had lived far from back and I decided, or I convinced him to help me find some good writers. Speaker 2 00:15:26 So I, I had some people, um, write a test article for me on a pretty technical, uh, topic. And then I sent it to him and he could say, this one is good. This one's bad, this one's good. And so, so you helped me find some good writers. And I did the same thing for all the sites where I had the exact same problem. And there, I reached out to a Facebook group within the industry and, um, and asked if I could, uh, ask out in his community if somebody was interested and he was interested in himself, the guy behind that Facebook group. So yeah, that was the process there. So, um, Speaker 0 00:16:03 The YouTube channel, uh, is associated with this site as well. That's also doing, doing very well. So it'd be good to hear a little bit about that. How long did that start in the, how long, how, how long would the swiping guy before he started the YouTube channel and, you know, ha that chronic know, have you managed to kind of grow that? Cause I think I looked at about 120,000, I think now, uh, uh, subscribers. Speaker 2 00:16:27 Yeah. Yeah. And, um, yeah, so Maria was 100% in charge of that. And after we had maximum Maxus four and a half, that's our toddler. Um, so you haven't been as active. So right now we don't know exactly what to do with it, to be honest, but at <inaudible>, that's a YouTube channel over, I think, three or four years. And she was just doing the little, the little bit of this and that, and we didn't have like a good strategy in place for it at all. I was, I didn't know a thing about YouTube at the time. I was 100% into blogging and, um, Pesach sites. So I think she became good at creating these videos. And she was more like the hosts on the side. So we were doing a lot of home tours and eventually we were filming a tiny house, these little cute houses on wheels, and it just completed, it took off because she was one of the first to do that. Speaker 2 00:17:17 I think to one of these videos had like a hundred thousand page, um, place in a very short amount of time. And, and then we figured out, okay, so this is the formula for this. She took challenge and we just traveled around the world filming tiny spaces for a long time. And because we liked to travel, that was what we wanted. And it, it was, it make made complete sense to do that. Uh, also out of the business expense since we were actually shooting content for them, for the YouTube channel. So when we went to the States many times for, um, meetups, for people living in buses and trucks and tiny houses, and we just did like a whole bunch of home tours and also in Holland and we went to Thailand to film stuff and yeah. So everywhere we wanted to go, we just made sure to find somebody Speaker 0 00:18:04 That's one expensive budget, isn't it for like a YouTube channel, you know, all that traveling. Speaker 2 00:18:09 Yeah. We all did. We also did a lot of content for the site. We also did a post for eats and yeah. Obviously we couldn't deduct everything, but, um, it, it helped. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:18:20 So you're running ads on that channel as well. Uh, as well as pushing people towards the site. She, yeah. Yeah. Cool. Hexham um, so yeah, so you mentioned your, your Danish tech site then, so that's, uh, that's uh that's how long ago did you start that one? Speaker 2 00:18:40 Yeah, there was a little, uh, before the downside, but I think it's pretty much around the same time, maybe seven, eight years ago as well. So I started these two projects and I was pretty invested in both the go downsize site and, and this one and, um, yeah, so it was mostly built, uh, alongside my clients. And just because I was interested in everything, chicken, Speaker 0 00:19:04 It's just a very broad tech site, is that it's nothing. Speaker 2 00:19:08 Yeah. It's very broad. It's started out comparing, um, broadband prices. And actually I changed the front page to just be a comparison of broadband prices because I thought it would rank better to use the front page instead of the URL deep inside the side. That didn't happen. And now I, I don't know if I should change it back to just be more like, uh, uh, we can say magazine style front page, but, um, that's, that's the main monetization on the side is comparing broadband prices and also VPNs and, uh, there's some good commissions there and also we'll bile subscriptions. So broadband is a little, uh, special here in Denmark because we have a lot of big vendors. So it's not like in the States, I don't know exactly how it is in the UK. I guess you guys also have quite a lot of competition within broadband. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:19:58 We have like four or five main kind of companies. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:20:01 Okay. Yeah, because I know in the States in many areas that only have like one option or maybe two and number two is horrible. So there's not a lot of competition, but over here there's a very, very fierce competition and the commissions are sky high and people James all the time. Yeah. Because they get this good deal and then you can promote that and get people to change once in awhile. So, yeah. Cool. Speaker 0 00:20:22 Okay. Awesome. So gentlemen, and generally, you know, how are, you know, across your portfolio of sites? Like, how are the sites generally monetized? Is it, is it all affiliate through ads or, Speaker 2 00:20:34 Yeah, so, so a few sites are very heavily in the affiliate side of things. And my newer sites in my bigger sites are more ad revenue also because it's, it's so easy to scale with ads because you don't even need to think about putting in the affiliate links. You can just hire a good writer and just throw a ton of content out there. But of course, you know that, but yeah, so, so I think it's also because I it's it's, um, it's going pretty fast as I say the last quarter of year side, I guess I should also hire somebody to throw in more affiliate links, but it's for the bigger sites, it's mostly ads. And then I eventually tried to dive deep into a category where I know where there's some good affiliate deals and try to dive into that. Speaker 0 00:21:18 And I, and they rank easier generally the info sites with the ad revenue. So, Speaker 2 00:21:23 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:21:26 Uh, so you did, do you, um, do you always avoid Amazon or did you have some Amazon affiliate sites? Speaker 2 00:21:33 They do a little bit of Amazon. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I never really build like a true Amazon site. Um, so I, I also, because I started in furniture, so I, as I said with go downsize and this other side was in the tech, uh, uh, department with the broadband and stuff. So I got into some other ad networks from the very beginning who had something else going on. Um, so because all these furniture stores were on sheriff sale and commission junction and the Von Glink and some of those. So I dived into those way more than Amazon. Um, yeah. So I I've actually never really done like a true Amazon site. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:22:14 Well, yeah, that's a good thing. That's like less risk for right there. So Speaker 2 00:22:20 Yeah, I guess it's, it spreads the risk a little bit. And also, you know, people are always a little concerned about Amazon cutting rates and stuff, but yeah, Speaker 0 00:22:28 I think rightly so, they've been doing it for like 10, 15 years now. Right. So it's not, it's not going to stop anytime soon. So. Cool. Um, so we really cool to talk, uh, in a little bit more detail about some of the strategies you employ in kind of starting a site from scratch and like, you know, some of the processes you go through. So, um, I guess, you know, from the beginning, Oh, let's go even before finding a niche, do you always start sites on a fresh domain? Maybe do you use expired domains ever, but what's your strategy there? Speaker 2 00:23:01 I always use fresh domains. Eventually I would use an expired domain, but just because the name was so good that I hoped it wasn't destroyed, but it was not to gain, um, something from, from it. I have, I think tested a little bit with expired domains, but that's very long ago. It's more like eight years ago when, so yeah, I guess it doesn't really count, but that was begging today where you could do almost anything, But these days I do actually grab a fridge for me. Speaker 0 00:23:30 Cool. And, um, yeah, so you kinda see out that kind of sandbox period and, um, yeah, yeah, Speaker 2 00:23:38 Yeah, yeah. I guess since I've been doing it a couple of times, it doesn't really bug me. I know it takes a long time to bank, a new site. And then I, since, since I have other sites that I can work on in the meantime, it doesn't really fuck me, but of course it's frustrating if, when you're building your first site to have to wait like six, eight, 10, 12 months. Speaker 0 00:23:56 Yeah. I mean, yeah. With all of this, we're playing the long game, right. We're not playing the short game, so yeah. Yeah. I think, um, you can just keep starting the periodically. I think, you know, if you're going to start with fresh domain start, whenever you kind of, whenever you can, uh, as long as you can, you've got the time or, or a budget to be able to afford it, if you can just keep starting them every six months or so, and keep them running through. Um, it depends on, Speaker 2 00:24:20 Yeah, and I, I, I think I started four or five sites last year and I started three years this year already. So I like to start sites and sometimes I just read like 10, 20 articles on there, let them sit for a year or something. And then I can see a little bit about what the ed earnings are, if it ranks, as I thought it would. And then of course I can build it from there. Speaker 0 00:24:40 Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. I was saying to, I found, I found one I'd forgotten about the other day that I mentioned to Adam that, um, it's too, that I think it was, uh, end of 2018. I started at say 20 minutes. Yeah. Like two years old. Right. And, um, Speaker 0 00:24:59 So it was like, um, I put like 25 articles on it and, um, I just looked at it and I found it and I like dug out the analytics and, um, for like, literally for two years it was just trending upwards the whole time. It didn't just go up and then flat line it just, but I mean, it's, it's only got to a thousand sessions a month. Right. But he got to a thousand systems a month, like really slowly over two years and, and just haven't stopped, you know, it just keeps you still trending up. Um, so I decided to start focusing some attention on it now. Cause like it's, it was a fresh domain, like, but you know, for two years it's been trending up with, so I think I figured I might as well start putting some effort into it. So, um, yeah. It, yeah, it's definitely worth to starting someone and just letting them sit for a while and then they've aged and Speaker 2 00:25:42 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I always regret that. I didn't start more sites just to have them. I mean, it also is if you want to sell like a side, but just a teeny tiny amount of money, you know, one of the 30, 40 multiplier, it is always worth it. I think if you can find the time Speaker 0 00:25:58 For sure. For sure. Cool. Um, so yeah, so let's talk about, um, finding a niche then. So how do you go about finding a good niche? Yeah. Speaker 2 00:26:10 Yeah. I have a lot of things that I look at. I fill out this Excel sheet. I look, uh, let's see if I can remember from top of my head, but everything from seasonality and <inaudible> with ASCE affiliate and they could, I could create an info product and uh, how evergreen is it and how, and, and so it's just a lot of factors. And then I score them from one to 10 and it gives me like a total score. Um, so that's, that's, that's how I do it. I, I try to think about these things and see if it's, uh, if there's commercial intent, could I come up with a good list of products that could work for the domain name? And so I, I think for me personally, finding the domain name and the niche that goes very much hand-in-hand because then to me that's really what defines what you can do with it, right. Speaker 2 00:26:58 The name of it. So I really, really like the broader domain names. Um, sometimes even just the branded names. You can, you can really obviously pivot that. Also just keep expanding. I mean, I'm happy that go downsize was full go downsize and not like smaller apartment spaces, because it would make it a little hard to go into boating and, or being, and since there was a good deal of authority on the side, now it can rank for almost anything. It's just great to be able to like have a thousand articles about books stuff, but up yeah. Speaker 0 00:27:29 Like, yeah. I mean, you don't want to limit yourself if you've got a site that's really successful and then you've got no more content you can write because you've covered it all in your tiny, tiny space that you've boxed yourself into, then Speaker 2 00:27:39 It's actually medical science. Speaker 0 00:27:43 Yeah. Yeah. I definitely agree with that. Yeah. I always go for branded these days and then you've got the option if you, if you want to kind of to, to, to branch out. So yeah. Cool. Yeah. Um, yeah. And so you mentioned the other thing we mentioned kind of, you know, evergreen topics, I guess that's why that's important for both affiliate and informational sites really isn't it. And like, uh, um, yeah, Speaker 2 00:28:06 Yeah, yeah. Also because my downsize site is it's pretty seasonal because the, most of the content is about our being and boating and people don't really do that in the winter. Right. So it doubles in the summer and then it goes down and up and down. So, I mean, it doesn't really bug me all that much because I like to look at it over a year. How much money is it making it doesn't I don't need to make this exact same amount of money per month, but you know, in some niches that makes, we definitely need to check a bit deeper on this system. Speaker 0 00:28:36 I mean, he's still evergreen, even if it's seasonal, right? Like it's like Speaker 2 00:28:41 Two different things. It's like, Speaker 0 00:28:42 I will avoid something like a tech site because the product range changes every three to six months and you've got to write another review or, you know, Speaker 2 00:28:51 Yeah, yeah. That's that's right for, I have another pretty big English tech side or I think I managed to find some good evergreen stuff. So I would say in a lot of categories that you would think of from top of your head, that would definitely be the case. But for example, something like VPNs, for example, and many other softwares and service in certain software, um, SAS products, many of those have a pretty long life, uh, time. And if, I mean, it's, it's easier to switch out MailChimp for something else. It's, there's another vendor. And, but, but yeah, for sure, there's a lot of stuff in the techniques. That's definitely not. Um, Speaker 0 00:29:30 Yeah. Okay. Cool. And, um, so in terms of, um, you know, once you've, I guess part of choosing a niche is like the topic research aspect of it. So making sure that there's going to be enough to write about and tell us about your topic research kind of strategy. Speaker 2 00:29:50 Yeah, I, uh, so, so I like to always find at least the first 20 topics, uh, before I decide on a domain name and the niche, um, to know sort of in which direction to go and I for, so for the topic research or keyword research, you can call it, um, I mostly use Google auto complete and the people also ask. And I also like to just really just think about it. Um, what can you say, what are the good, can you call it stomach feeling, uh, going into forums and really just try to immerse yourself in the, um, in the nation and see, just really write down anything you would want, uh, think about as a beginner and just decided to try to create a list like that. And then just doing like a ton of searches and see, is this something with a lot of competition because obviously for the first articles you would need to go for something that's either very, very low competition and something would have very, very low competition. So that's what I'm going for. I'm going for what I call underserved topics. 100% for a long time to really get some, some initial traffic where there's not a single article written on that. So sometimes it's, it's, um, it's pretty specific, but many times, um, I mean, if you're, if you spend a good amount of time, I I'm some times able to find some pretty broad stuff that hasn't been covered well with the headlines and the articles are not really on point that I can combine for. Speaker 0 00:31:21 Yeah. So do you plan, do you plan out, you said either sort of 15, 20 topics, so I guess in your planning out on like a year or two's worth of content potentially like from the outset, Speaker 2 00:31:32 Um, no, I try to stop at the, um, uh, around 20 articles. So it doesn't take too long form from finding the topic till it's actually on the site, because if somebody else wrote it, you know, it it's, it's a pity because I want to find something initially that nobody wrote an article about. And so that's, that's definitely my main strategy for getting some, getting some initial, uh, traffic to the sites to find these really underserved topics. So I spent a lot of time doing that, to find something was really just user generated continent forums, where there's not really any articles at all to really get the site started with that. So I do that for the first 20, 30, 40, 50 articles. If, if I can, if it's not too competitive, sometimes it's, it's impossible to find that many, um, topics that haven't been written on. And then eventually it's link start coming to the sites to the site and it has more and more traffic I'll start going in to going a little deeper into the nation, find something where this can be a bit more competent. Speaker 0 00:32:29 Okay. So, yeah. So when you're talking about the topics you're talking about the articles themselves really, that you're trying to find 15, 20 articles and stories. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking you meant like 15, 20 topics, like 50, 50 articles in each or something, you know, in each topic. So, yeah. Okay. Speaker 2 00:32:44 Yeah. Yeah. So I started with 20 articles. Yeah. Uh, headlines. Yeah. And then I, I go from there and then I tried to have them published and then I find some new ones. So I tried to not have like many months from coming up with, um, the articles to post. Speaker 0 00:33:00 Okay. So you kind of, um, okay. You sort of do it in batches of 1520. Um, so, um, so yeah, in terms of the research, those first 1520, um, and you've, you're looking obviously for very low, cause you've got, you've got no authority at this point. Do you, is there, is there any point that you just let it sit or do you just keep like, you know, just to wait till they get some traction after that and white Asian about, Oh, you just, you just push on and just keep going, knowing that you're going to come out the sandbox at some point, right? Speaker 2 00:33:30 Yeah. All of the above, I would say there's a few sites that I just knew from the beginning that I wanted to really build out to become like large sites with me with thousands of articles. So for those, I just kept edit adding like 20 or 30 articles every month, even though like nothing happened for quite a long time, because I know it will take off eventually. And for other sites, I just maybe just had an idea that maybe this could be cool to do, but I don't really know if it will work if it's too competitive. Like if I can really convert these products, get people to do whatever XYC that I wanted them to do on the site. So sometimes I would just let 50 articles sit there for a year or two to see how it does with that and the familiar. So I would say both, but, um, I have a few sites that I continually push the content to every month for three years now. And they are, they they're getting up there. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:34:24 Yeah. I, yeah, I totally agree with, that's why I was doing, that's what I always suggest to people as well, is that you just wasting time if you're sitting here and waiting for it to say it, and then hoping, you'll see some thing you keep pushing on. If you're systematic about continuously publishing content and keeping that going, then you're going to get there in the end. And I think to a lots of people give up like on a site, like way too early before, before you've even really given it a chance to, you know, some people will think that I've done, uh, and even as low as 30 articles and think that's enough, I should be saying something like good revenue from now. You've got to guess like a hundred, 200, 300, you know, like this is like, Speaker 2 00:35:02 Yeah. And especially if those are the first 30 articles they ever wrote, you know, half of those would probably never take off because they didn't really do it. Right. Maybe so there. Yeah. And then they'll come back after two years and something would have happened and they regret they didn't do more right here. Speaker 0 00:35:18 Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And then you've gone to lost, lost loads of time and yeah. Just keep, just keep pushing on. And, and the other thing is that, you know, like generally, like it's about 20% of your articles that make up the majority of all of your traffic to the science. So if you've only written 20 articles, the Johnson's, I was like, maybe two of them are like the good ones. And like the other ones never really got a rank that well, so you haven't really given yourself like much chance. So yeah. Speaker 2 00:35:41 That's definitely some risk of that. Yeah. I guess it also depends on where you are in your, um, in your, with your business. So since you and I both have a portfolio of sites, it makes sense sometimes to just test something out and then to sit there and come back to it because we have other things to tend to attend to. But I definitely agree, like for beginner, they should just keep edit and, and just to keep chugging along to really see the success. Speaker 0 00:36:05 Yeah. Someone I like would like if I was in going into a competitive niche and I was like trying testing the water on some strategy, and then I want like, cause, um, just to make sure that I'm not pushing money into a black hole or something I'm never going to be able to compete for, but if I'm testing out something that's really challenging, but I think I might have a good angle for it or maybe a good expire at the frame. Then I might like give it a little bit of a way to sit. But, um, because again, like I say, it might be a dead end, but for most niches where, where you can find low competition keywords, which is most niches the hell, right. You can still find an angle generally. Um, you know, necessarily talking, Speaker 2 00:36:43 Yeah. You just need to get better at finding them dig deeper. Maybe you spend like 30 hours instead of two hours. Speaker 0 00:36:50 Yeah. That's so important just to spend all that time and you get better and better at finding, finding angles for, for finding good keywords as well. And then it just takes practice. You can't really teach it. It's like intuition to some extent. And, um, yeah. Yeah. It just like reminds me when I, um, when I first started my career, I worked at Microsoft for like 10 years and my first job was I worked in as a support engineer and like, I just became a real good, really good at mastering how to search right to search Google, what, sorry to such being right. I was such in Bing, um, I'll know, the chip in my head is buzzing now searching bang and Oh, but you know, we had internal knowledge bases and stuff. We just become really, really expert and really, really good at searching and finding stuff. Speaker 0 00:37:40 So like, you know, so it sounds weird because everyone uses Google and everyone searches and then everybody thinks like search well, but you definitely find like if you find, if you want to find them, what's some of the cinema next week, that's easy. But if you really want to find, uh, an some specific problem that someone's written about is it's not prevalent on the web, then you really have to like search well. And like it's a skill at the end of the day, but then that's, that's that's and says keyword research and only comes with practice and doing it again and again. And if you're just spending an hour here and there and hoping that you've found all the keywords for a site and they're the best ones, then you you're just wrong. You just need to spend a lot of time upfront with that. Speaker 2 00:38:18 Yeah. And it's something I, I just, uh, I just did a little video for my community about it because somebody, and I could see in my community was really struggling with this. And I, uh, so I was, I was just talking with them about, um, it doesn't really matter if you need, like, if you need to spend several hours coming up with the first few topics, because it'll probably take you two, three, four, five hours to write one of those. So, I mean, if you, if by spending 10 more hours or 20 more hours finding good topics, and you will have maybe five of those eventually ranking pretty well, that will be time well spent. Right. Because otherwise you might waste like 20 hours writing stuff that will never run because it didn't really find the good. Speaker 0 00:39:03 Yes. What's your, we've had a bit of chat on this podcast recently and just in general, across our Facebook groups and stuff about like zero con zero volume keywords, like, what's your view on those, you know, you searched in atria and it says that it's zero, uh, you know, what's your view on kind of zero volume keywords. Speaker 2 00:39:24 Yeah. And that's, that's why I, I, um, I tried to call it a topics because I'm really not that focused on specific keywords. I tried to think of it as a collection of search terms. You can say because many times, most of my articles I'd say rank for between 30 and 200, um, search phrases when you look it up in search console. So I think I really tried to think more of topics and not so much, uh, targeting a specific phrase or keyword, because if I figured, if I do that, maybe I have a headline that would never, if you put it into any tool I generate anything. And then they end up getting that your thousand page views. So, so I, I, I really, really liked those series. You can call them zero search volume in keywords. I don't really use it if you would tools or the must to, to give me estimates, because I mean, many times I will have a lot of traffic because, um, the topic is, is great, but maybe that specific keyword that you have in the title didn't really, um, trigger anything. Speaker 2 00:40:26 And then you rank for something else. I mean, I have some articles and run that ranked was something that I never thought that rang for. And then you figure out, Oh, there could be an article about specific flag for a boat. And then it started ranking for which flags do boaters use, or what does this flag mean and all, and all that kind of related stuff. And then I think the specific article has more than 2000 page views per month. And it was definitely like a see root volume keyword. And then eventually I changed the, sometimes change the headline a little bit to fit all those searches that I continue to search console and sort of tailor it toward the right audience. You can say if that makes sense. Speaker 0 00:41:07 Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Totally. Makes sense. Excellent. Um, okay, so, and what about site structure when you're setting up sites? Is, um, is that something you think about, do you think about silos and clusters or yeah. How do you structure your categories? Tell yeah. How do you do that? Speaker 2 00:41:27 No, not really. I just think about the categories from the user perspective. Um, but then again, I try, so for the first batch, you can say like, let's take the first 29 articles. For example, I tried to keep them very, very closely connected. So maybe it's different aspects of the same product or the same service or so it could be a specific product. And then you would try to answer everything that nobody entered about this very specific thing. So, so I try to keep it closely knit together, but then I might branch into something totally different. And so of course those are, you can say clusters or silos, but I'm for the side. And I, I guess I haven't been doing too much internal linking, and there's also because it's been going a little fast. I just recently I've been testing out link whisper, I guess. Speaker 2 00:42:16 I think I saw that on your tools page, as well as I'm testing that right now on the site to get some more internal links you can say in the silo structure, but otherwise I really just structure it for the categories in the menus, on the pages LSR. Yeah. On the sites. That's, that's how they're grouped together. Yeah. And then of course, sometimes I will try to rank for something and then I'll use some of these, you can say, um, very related articles and then link all those smaller, smaller articles up to this primary money site and money page, I guess you can say. So that's, I think that's, that's the only thing I, I do there. I, I care much more about going after something with less competition than, than the side was fractured. Speaker 0 00:43:01 Okay. So you think that almost trumps, if you find some very low competition niche on radar competition keywords, then it almost doesn't matter about the you're saying that the structure and that the internal linking. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:43:15 I, I tried to test this by going extreme in the other direction. So I on purpose did a site with 30 articles where none of the content was by any means related. It was just East Western center, just to see if I could rank anything as long as there was absolutely no competition. So these were all very, very much, you can say underserved articles with no competition at all, and it is ranking, but it's going very, very slowly. It's like three or four times slower than never it's a mind, but it is ranking. So this just seems like you can definitely cut off some ranking time if you, um, if you do a good job of siloing or building out categories with similar content. I, I think, yeah, I think it's two years old now and it's, it's only now starting to see the traffic that I would expect it to do after. Speaker 0 00:44:13 That's interesting. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I definitely, I've definitely seen a huge upturns in kind of traffic, just from sites of people from, you know, guys that have just built a site. I know virtually all of their pages are orphaned because they've never really linked to anything. And then you go in and do internal linking among those pages and you can see you get good results from that. Especially if they've got like a decent number of backlinks at that time. Cause like, you know, the, the no link juice is flowing to any of those orphan pages. So it's just not going anywhere. It's not, it's not seeing the benefit of that. So what if you've got a lot of bank pictures and you start putting the internal links in and all that link juice starts flying around the site, then you really still, you can see some good results for sure. Speaker 2 00:44:55 And how do you do that, Mark? Do you use link whisper or do you do it manually? What's your process for internal links between the silo or ketamine? Speaker 0 00:45:04 Yeah, so I, I used to, uh, I used to do it manually before linguistic whisper and it was just, uh, you know, it's just a nightmare. It's just a pain in the ass, it just takes ages. And, um, but, and it's one of those things like, you don't want to get screwed up too much either. So you don't really try to like trust the VA to do that necessarily. Like if they're not skilled in SEO, so like he to yeah. But like I'm not too, I'm not too strict on it, but I do try and I do try to like cluster or, or create silos for my content. So I'll have different sides and I try not to, I try not to link outside of those silos. Uh, occasionally it's fine, but like for the majority, I try to keep it all within. So just to maintain that kind of topical relevance in that kind of one on one space. So, um, right now I just, I, I use link whisper just because it makes it a hell of a lot quicker. And I go in and it makes some pretty good predictions on, on like, uh, which articles should link from one to the other. But primarily I use the key, there's a key word. Um, key keyword Speaker 2 00:46:06 Search you can do. So I start searching Speaker 0 00:46:08 Some, some keywords related to that article to find other articles that have kind of got that same content and then kind of UN and then link that way. Um, and I just generally try to get three or four links into any article on the site, um, and vice versa and, and start that way. Yeah, yeah, Speaker 2 00:46:25 Yeah. I'm testing to do the same thing and I'm excited to see if something happens. Actually. I mean, I definitely don't have enough data yet, but I did it three days ago on a side that's been plateauing for awhile, even though I'm adding a lot of content to it. So, so I would expect it to soon start getting to a new plateau and nothing has been happening for a couple of months, but I just added like 200 internal links with linguists for like three days ago. And the last two days it's actually been growing, it's still desiring to see what will happen after a few weeks, if this was actually something that could solve that. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, definitely makes a difference. It did. Did you see anything like this after you wind in and like build a lot of internal links to see it suddenly start? Speaker 0 00:47:07 Yes. Huge. Especially even, um, like very new sites, so nice sites that are, um, like are in the sandbox and I kind of similar to you. I just go at it and I just create loads and loads of articles. And, and then, uh, you know, you can't, you can't really do internal linking until you've got a bunch anyway, because you've got no other articles to link to. So I get, so I get to like 50, a hundred, 200 articles, then I do the internal linking and then, and, um, your new sites suddenly you'll see, you know, search, search console, the impressions, you'll see, you'll see this like boner kind of like re like really spiking up. And I think it's just helping. I mean, I've not tested this side by side, but like I suspect it's helping you kind of speed up that sandbox process a little bit, but you're definitely, yeah. I definitely start ranking for more keywords and gain more impressions much more quickly, um, when I've done that. Speaker 2 00:47:58 Okay. Sorry to hear that because I mean, of course I do some internal links, but I've just been dripping them here and there, I haven't ever before, like not done it. And then all of a sudden could all of them in there. So I'm excited to see how that works because it's, it's pretty hard to know with all these different factors, what really makes, makes it tick, right? Yeah. Speaker 0 00:48:17 Yeah, for sure. But yeah, that's cool. Yeah. Give it a go and let us know how it turns out, but yeah, it's cool. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. I think it's, it's really undervalued actually. Like it's so, but it's, I think it's one of the things that's so boring. I love people can't be bothered today and, um, therefore, Speaker 2 00:48:33 Yeah, but, but, and as I say that, but it's easy. I mean, it's something that we can actually control. It's not like you need to find the site or do have somebody else do something you can actually just log in and do it. It's just that boring. But I mean, if you want to do it, uh, so I, I tried to just spend like half an hour per day doing it and then eventually go through all these tons of articles and make sure that I get them to link. So, yeah, I'm excited. Speaker 0 00:48:58 Good. Awesome. So, um, social media, we've already mentioned like, like, I guess you call YouTube social media, but kind of, do you ever use any other social media for peer sites? And they say like what and, and how, Speaker 2 00:49:13 Yeah. Only YouTube and Pinterest. Um, just because, you know, they have good traffic drivers. Uh, I never really used, uh, like Instagram and Twitter. Uh, it feels like you just drip, another little tweet or picture in the, in the, in the big sea of nothingness, nothing happens. So yeah, so Pinterest, in some niches, for example, with go downsize because it's furniture, it's interior design, so it's very, very visual. So it makes a lot of sense. Um, but, but not for all sites. I also have bigger sites that I didn't build like any social presence for, and they, they do really well as well as they didn't rank any slower. I think so. So I, I think it's not opportunity for extra traffic, but I, I don't see it as necessary, but I, I mean, I, I could be wrong. I am not in any way on while initiatives. I did a little bit of testing that failed. Um, so I, I don't know if maybe it's, it's important there. What, what do you do with social media profiles? Do you do that? Speaker 0 00:50:19 Yeah. I only really use Pinterest as well in like in any kind of great capacity, because like you say, like all social platforms are transient, so like you post and it's gone and it's gone forever. Whereas Pinterest is a visual search engine, so people will come back and just like SEO, they'll come back in a year's time and they'll search for something and your pin will show up and then they'll end up on your site. So, yeah, I've got like, um, like a home site that like 45% of the traffic comes from Pinterest. It gets about 60, 70,000 sessions a month and 40, 40 all Pinterest. Um, but, um, Speaker 2 00:50:59 Is it converting as well? I don't know if you do affiliate or ads with it, but is it making as much money per thousand features as searching for it? Speaker 0 00:51:06 The truth is I haven't even never tested it. I don't know, to be honest, whether it, whether it does or it doesn't have to be, that's the only street. So yeah, Speaker 2 00:51:13 I think on my, on my side for downsize, it's, it's doing pretty well. It's maybe doing, putting in like 80% of what Google search traffic, but Google search. I mean, I go get it. Google traffic is by far the best, uh, traffic source. Speaker 0 00:51:26 Yeah. I think Germany is the case. I mean, I, yeah. I mean, it's about two thirds of it is ad revenue, I think. And one third is affiliate on that site, but, um, yeah, like it's, it's, it's still great for ads and that's it, you can't complain and it's lucky. It's, it's pretty cheap as well. You know, like I've got someone who does that for me, and they just cracked pins on all the new blogs, but they go around and crate pins and all the old blogs again and kind of just keep pinning stuff. And, um, so yeah, Speaker 2 00:51:57 Yeah. I definitely need to find somebody to do that. I had one at one point and then she quit and I didn't find a new person to do this. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:52:06 Yeah. I haven't really kept up with it. Like, uh, like too much, like the guy, he kind of keeps up with it somewhat, but, um, I think he, we used to use, I can't even think what it's called now. The, uh, what's the tailwind yeah. Music these days. I don't think that's a recommendation you're supposed to be using, um, like life or what's it called life, I think called Twitter live live pinning center. No, not Twitter. Speaker 2 00:52:34 Pinterest like Phoenix, Speaker 0 00:52:36 Like I think like Tara, when was the thing, like, it was the only toy. It was great. And it just did the things I think like you just can't like that just doesn't work as a strategy anymore. They kind of eliminated that tool. So for me, for a long time, you're supposed to be not pinning directly on the Pinterest platform, but you're supposed to pin from your site, like th like th uh, that apparently is like kind of better, but, um, also, yeah, you're supposed to use the, I think it's called live pins. Pinterest pins. Let me just check. I'm going to search for it. Why are we doing it? Why are we doing this? But yeah, it might not be called live pinning because nothing came up, but, um, yeah. <inaudible> Oh, yeah. He's like pinning his life pinning. So it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's on the Pinterest platform. So they've kind of, kind of forcing you to kind of use their platform, I think rather than like tailwind. So, um, yeah. Speaker 2 00:53:28 Yeah. I mean, it also makes sense for them to not be so dependent on software that kind of tries to, uh, cheat, right? Yeah. Look like a real person just going crazy all everyday. Speaker 0 00:53:41 Well, but yeah, I would say definitely been dressed as well, um, for, yeah, for visual nieces niches, for sure. Um, Speaker 2 00:53:49 Yeah. And also sometimes just very, very low competition on Pinterest. I mean, some of the craziest stuff you can just rank for and the same thing with you too, right. If sometimes you're able to, um, grab some good views and traffic for the very competitive stuff that you couldn't touch with a blog post, and then sometimes you can send some traffic to the blog post or whatever. Yeah. It makes them, yeah. Speaker 0 00:54:10 Yep. I agree. And, um, so what do you do for link-building E do you actively link build? Are you, is it more organic? Speaker 2 00:54:20 Um, so I, I don't do any outreach. Um, I, I didn't back like many years ago for my clients, as I told you, but, um, but I, I don't do it these days. So mostly I just, um, go for a lot of contents and what I call underserved content with us, not an article already. And then it's easy to link a source rainforest without links. And then as the traffic comes, the, the link will of course follow. But I do have some, now I say some formats, or can you say types of articles that tend to attract more links? Um, and that's also something that I tried to go over. In my course, I looked at a couple of thousand blog posts across my size to see what, what gets links and how can I tweak that to, to make, uh, to have more articles sitting on the side that will have a higher chance of attracting links, but really these days, I don't care that much about it. Speaker 2 00:55:17 I was obsessed with links like a decade ago and then five, six, seven years ago. But since I found that I could link, I could, sorry, I, that I can rank, um, without links for new site. I did a couple of case studies on my YouTube channel. I've been able to, there's the one on one side that's less than two years old this summer, it'll be two years old. It's getting close to 300,000 page views. Now in a, I would say a fairly competitive niche and I didn't build like a single link to it. And it's from, and I think on average, the articles are getting, um, six, seven, eight, and then probably let me do the math 900 page views on average. So, so it's, it's getting a really good deal of traffic. And now, I mean, there's links new links every month from good side. So, so I'm, I'm, I don't have any active strategies other than I try to, um, build outcomes and that I know will eventually get some links. Speaker 0 00:56:15 Yeah. I mean, once you, once you get to a certain level, you can definitely start getting those links like organically. Um, it just takes a while to get there. Um, but you know, if you're you, like, like we said before, if you're playing the long game, um, you know, it doesn't really matter. Like you'll, you'll get there in the end, but certainly once you get starting at, into, into the tens of thousands of worth of sessions, then yeah, you do just naturally start picking up links on a yeah. Speaker 2 00:56:42 Yeah. And also, I, I also have like a another side that's getting called a hundred thousand pair shoes. And if you're drinking the tools, I mean, the domain authorities may be for some, because it's not really that many links, but it starts to beat some competing articles. And I dunno if it's just because school, we can see that I have good metrics on the site. I like to write long format articles and really, really get into like the subheadings. I don't try to cram a lot of keywords into the subheadings. I try to really just create the best possible outline. Sometimes I will have four or five subsections where I don't think people would actually search for it, but it would just make this article better just to keep people on that article. So I really think mostly about the user experience there and see if I can create a resource that's just by far better than all these other articles. Speaker 2 00:57:28 Sometimes, you know, you just can, you can just see that just stuffed every keyword in there. And it doesn't really make sense when you read it. So people bounce off after paragraph two, and then I find I can typically be that with just a good article. I really, uh, target the intention behind the search. I think Google is getting better at getting better at picking up, um, like good content, at least to some extent. I don't think that, of course they can see what's in the article, but they can see what the is doing in Chrome. Right. Then if they like the article to stay there and click on it and take around. Speaker 0 00:58:02 Yeah. I think definitely over time, there'll be, there'll be no need for links because Google will be, we'll know what's good content and what's not like ahead of time. And you just won't know, they won't need those external kind of factors to that. Be able to predict that. But I still think it's quite a long time. Speaker 2 00:58:16 I do find horrible on a very, very established site. Right. So it doesn't mean that you have good content just because you have a lot of links to other articles. Speaker 0 00:58:24 Yeah, for sure. But I think it's still a way away. I mean, I always still try to build links because for me it's more like, you know, you tried to do all of the things like, uh, to like make the site, give it right. So you're going to do some on page. You're gonna do some good content. You can get to do internal linking. And for me, just like, and he's like, if you links is luck and one of those other things that should be in the mix. So I always try to do like something building, uh, on my sites because it's kind of like, why ignore that one factor? Like, it's still probably one of the biggest factors I just kind of go for it. Speaker 2 00:58:58 It's for sure. It's, it's definitely still a factor. They're very open about that as well, Speaker 0 00:59:04 But it's, you know, it's, it's hard, it's time consuming and it's not the only way, like, you know, if you like, again, you know, playing the long game, you don't need necessarily to do it. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:59:14 I blinked. I just took like, uh, a decision three or four years ago also with my clients too, to stop building links because I could see that I could rank for these underserved articles. And then I just really got to try to get good at finding those and see where I could get a good deal of traffic. So of course I, I will rarely rank something like best X for Y because those will typically need some more links. Right. Because they're more competitive, but, um, I don't go for those for the first couple of years until I, I get some links. I just really, so yeah. I just spent my time and my money getting more content up there. But, um, I mean, there's definitely a case for both sites and there are links is definitely a huge ranking factor. So yeah. At the time, linked to myself paying the days I just decided to, to quit it. Speaker 0 01:00:02 Yeah. I'd love you. There's no problem with that. I'm waiting for somebody to come up with like a, you know, I only build links. I don't build content, you know, that's, I don't think that works so well though, you know, but build links to nothing, just a domain name on a, on a landing page. Yeah. Cool. Um, yeah. So you've, um, you've recently launched a course, which you spent months toiling over. So like, yeah. This is your time. Tell us a bit about your course. Speaker 2 01:00:33 Yeah, thanks. Yeah. You launched it in late November. So what is it like a couple of months? And um, yeah, so I, I tried to do something a little different with the course. So I have all these modules and talk. I talk about all this stuff that we talked about here, finding a good domain name and nation to keep keyword research sitting on the side and all of this stuff, SEO and so on. So, and then after I build out the course, I, I started building an actual site insight, um, where I film everything. So you can say, I take my own course and show how to, how to actually find out the main name of it. I show them how I register. I set up the site and how I find each topic. I show, I record myself during the actual outlining and writing the article. Speaker 2 01:01:16 So I think it's, is it 15 hours now? It's just me working on the computer doing stuff. So I did edit out like pauses and breaks and herbs and art and stuff. It's so, so there's this other aspects to my course that I think is a little unique to actually see me filled in, not just talk about how to do it, but I show people how then after they know how to do it, I show them how I do it. So I I'm having a lot of fun with that. And so I'm building this site inside my community with the people in and yeah, it's also, it's been a very, very long time since I been writing articles myself. So it's, it's kinda, it was kind of fun to actually write the first 30, 40 articles hire somebody from there too. So I'm still doing that. I think I wrote the first 13 articles now, this new site. Cool. So that's, that's kinda interesting. Speaker 0 01:02:06 So tell us about the, the community aspect then. Like, how is that, how is that, is that forum, is that like a Slack channel or Speaker 2 01:02:14 It's a forum, so it's, um, you can say you, so you get, um, when you're logging into my site, you're also automatically locked into to the community on the site. So it's not a Facebook group. It's more like what you have, like topics and you can yeah. More like a message support or community that way. So, yeah. So it's, um, it's like that, I think without, they're like 250 or 300 people in there now or something, and it's, I'm really enjoying head and I'm in there daily and I'm learning some, some good stuff. I just learned some new stuff about Gutenberg last. Uh, was it a few weeks ago? I just did elementary across my sites. I've been redesigning my own slides for the last two days straight now to, um, set them all up with Gutenberg to hit some better core vital scores. I didn't know, actually that you could set up a, uh, side with sections, uh, like you have this article and then you have, sorry, this category of articles and then you have this section. Speaker 2 01:03:14 So it was just some new stuff that I learned that I, I used elementary for that on my own sites to section, as you can see my front pages and category pages and stuff, so that, yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty fun to, um, to have that community going. And there was also something, it was definitely one of the main reasons why I started the site and I started the YouTube channel because I wanted to start the course that when I did that hand in hand and I, I started the YouTube channel and planned for the course because it was just a little lonely to do, uh, fill in the content sites and especially sitting in Denmark. I don't know anybody else in Denmark. Well, now I know like a few handful from my community, but there's not a lot of people here in Denmark building like American websites to monetize with that and affiliates. Speaker 2 01:03:59 So I wanted to, to sort of build a platform to get to know people like you, and I'm sitting here talking to you as just, it's just something that I really enjoy. Uh, it's been opening so many doors for me with the YouTube channel and in the course. So, so that's definitely one of the main motivation for me to meet all the people in. I'm very, very happy that I have some, I mean, of course I have a lot of beginners, but I also have some guys inside the community that I can learn from who are ahead of me, who do some pretty amazing stuff with their own one guy in there is building his own content management system. So it's actually more like a publishing system. You think something like clickable Trello, but just to be able to publish like thousands of articles is, it's kind of interesting to see what people are doing when you get behind the scenes and down in the basement and see what they're building. Speaker 0 01:04:51 Awesome. Awesome. Cool. Well, yeah, yeah. Along with that, continue. I hope it goes well. So what, where can Danish affiliate marketers or actually anyone find more about you, but where should they go? Speaker 2 01:05:03 Yeah, so everything I do is on YouTube and also on my side, it's the same handle. It's passive income geek.com and everything I do is in English. Of course. So, um, so I do eventually have somebody from Denmark there, but it's, uh, it's very international in this. I really enjoy that. So it's passive income, kiki.com and also on YouTube video there every week. Yeah. Speaker 0 01:05:27 Cool. Is there anything else you'd like to add before we wrap up? Speaker 2 01:05:32 No, I think you covered it pretty well. Is I really, really enjoyed talking to you, Mark. You're obviously very smart in your know it's like, you guys really know what you're doing, so it's really been a pleasure to hang out here and then also get to know you a little bit more. I think you asked some really good questions. Speaker 0 01:05:50 Great. Well, thanks very much Martin. And, uh, yeah. Thanks for joining us on the show. Thanks. Thanks again for tuning in, and I hope you enjoyed the show. If you're listening to the podcast version of this episode, please subscribe on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts, please rate and review. As this will allow us to grow our audience and create more shows like this one. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to be the first to know about any new episodes that we release until the next episode. Goodbye.

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