Chris from Niche Safari about quitting his corporate job to run his content sites (and his awesome tips on winning featured snippets)

June 08, 2021 01:06:22
Chris from Niche Safari about quitting his corporate job to run his content sites (and his awesome tips on winning featured snippets)
Niche Website Builders Show
Chris from Niche Safari about quitting his corporate job to run his content sites (and his awesome tips on winning featured snippets)
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Show Notes

 

In this episode of the Niche Website Builders Podcast, Adam Smith talks to Chris from Niche Safari. Chris left his corporate career to become a full-time blogger. Lifestyle is more important to him. Now, he makes even more money – not just enough to live on.  

Chris discusses his approach to building both Amazon websites and informational websites. Also, Chris shares his seven top tips on how to win featured snippets: Copy current snippet, write definitions 40-60 words long, create lists directly under a keyword optimized H2, answer questions immediately at top of the article, add detailed tables, structure headings correctly, and use professional niche-specific language.   

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 0 00:00:09 Are you ready to get serious about building content sites and building a profitable business online. Welcome to the niche website builders podcast. We bring you the latest field, tested tips, tricks and strategies for building a profitable online asset. We interview industry experts, share customer success stories and reveal our own experiences. Working on hundreds of sites to inspire and motivate you to make something happen. Let's do this. Speaker 1 00:00:41 Hi and welcome to this week's episode of the niche website. Build a podcast and YouTube channel this week. I've got an awesome guest. His name is Chris, uh, from niche safari. He's a full-time blogger. He's been doing this for the past couple of years, uh, having left his corporate job. He was a, he worked at the university at a university, so was teaching at a university university. Um, Chris left that job because lifestyle was important to him. Um, he now runs his business around his lifestyle. So it's very much a lifestyle business for him, but he's ultimately really good money. So it's not like a lifestyle business where you just make enough to live. Curious. Quizzes are also making really good money from this. In today's episode, we talk about his approach to build in both Amazon websites and informational websites, which I think is interesting because most people tend to see success with one and they continue, but Chris has done both. So we get his perspective on that. And then towards the end of the interview, we also run through Chris's seven top tips on how to win featured snippets, which are really awesome. Like I love everything about them. So I thought it was really cool that we got to chat through those. And it's something actionable that you can take away from today's episode implement visa and it's nice quick wins. So, uh, hope you get a lot from this. Let us know in the comments. Um, let's get into this. Speaker 0 00:01:59 This episode is brought to you by niche website builders, an agency dedicated to helping people, just like you build profitable content sites, niche website builders are the hands-off content site marketing agency. You always wished existed. It's run by content site marketers for content site marketers, and they help both investors and individuals alike build profitable online properties. They provide a fully outsourced approach to content creation link-building and done for you. Website builds the same approach they use on their own six-figure portfolios. For example, their content packages come with a proprietary keyword research process are written by in-house native English speakers formatted using templates proven to convert and uploaded to WordPress with affiliate links added so that all you need to do is hit the publish button. Check them [email protected] slash show that's niche, website.builders/show, and fill out the form to get coupon codes for 10% more content, or a 10% discount on links with your first daughter sent right to your inbox. Hey Chris, how's things. Speaker 2 00:03:08 Great, Adam, how are you? I'm Speaker 1 00:03:09 Good. I'm good. Welcome to the show. Thanks for taking the time. Thanks for being with us. Speaker 2 00:03:14 Yeah, no problem. Happy to chat. Speaker 1 00:03:16 So you're, you're over in, um, you're in Canada, right? Yeah, that's right. I mean, Vancouver, I would just say like, Hey, after everything you're in, came up. So I know that, Speaker 2 00:03:26 You know, to be honest, my life is online. So I feel like I spend more time talking to Americans and Brits and things and going out and spending time and connect. Especially during the pandemic, like spin locking doors. Literally yesterday, they finally reopened restaurants after three months of having them shut down. Speaker 1 00:03:44 It's crazy. Isn't it? We've, we've been locked. So they've just opened that, opened them in the UK too. But we'd been locked down since before Christmas. Yeah. Restaurants and yeah, it's just, thank God we're coming out to it. Right, exactly. But you're at your accents, obviously you're Australian or New Zealand. Speaker 2 00:04:02 Australian. Yeah. So I grew up in Australia, finished my degree back home. And then I did the almost Rite of passage for young Australians. I did the back and forth to Canada, snowboarding doing ski seasons back and forth. And then, uh, I, uh, I met a girl in a ski season and that was the end of me Speaker 1 00:04:23 To that, that all story love story. But so then she came, she came back to the UK with you for some time, right? What were you doing together? Speaker 2 00:04:31 So I got offered a job in Newcastle, uh, teaching at a university up there. So I went up to, uh, the UK for two years trying to pursue a career as a university lecturer, essentially. And then we got to two years in the UK and my girlfriend said stock to move back to Vancouver. So we shipped off and came home and it's probably a good decision in the end because when I got here, we, I was really not interested in getting another teaching job. So I kind of went all in on building websites. And I gave myself about two years. And by the two year point I was, I was teaching part-time, but by the two year point, I was ready to just go full time building websites. So essentially that's what I did. Speaker 1 00:05:20 What were you teaching by the way? What was your, what were you teaching? Speaker 2 00:05:24 So I was originally like a primary school teacher or elementary school teacher. And I did that for a very short period of time. And then I went and I did PhD in education and then I started teaching sort of sociology of education to a university students. Speaker 1 00:05:41 Okay. Okay. Nice. So yeah, that sounds like a great move there. And going back there almost forced your hand, right. To jump in on to do the online stuff. Speaker 2 00:05:51 Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, I was reluctant to leave because I was kind of giving up this concept of having a career and working towards promotions and all of that stuff that I just can't imagine ever going back to. It sounds terrible. Speaker 1 00:06:05 No worries. It's funny because literally as we started this, I asked, did you have any, uh, hard, hard limits on the time you had today and were like, no, I have nothing else to do today. Exactly. Speaker 2 00:06:15 Yeah. For me building websites is all about lifestyle and more interested in being relaxed and having a good lasts all and uh, you know, making a million dollars. I mean, I wouldn't mind making a million dollars and one day hopefully I'll get there, but it's definitely more important that, that I have this comfortable lifestyle where, you know, no one wakes me up of a morning except for got a podcast to do. And then, uh, yeah, just knock off when I want. Speaker 1 00:06:43 Awesome. Well, I want to come, I want to come back in a second too, um, to how you felt like you could just jump in to doing, um, like this as a, as a job. Like it obviously started, we've had some experience before this, but I want to, I was asked this to all our guests is how do you remember how, and when you made your first dollar online? Speaker 2 00:07:04 Yeah. So my story for this would be pretty simple. I started when I started off, I was following people like John Dykstra, Doug Cunnington spends a whole is sort of teaching how to make websites. And I had to make that decision between whether I wanted to make an affiliate site or display ad site. And I decided for my first site, I'll do a display ad site because I wanted the lowest possible competition. Uh, so I can just see if I could rank. So essentially I made a display ad site and as soon as they hit 10,000 page views signed up to a Zoe. And I think at the end of the first month of Zoe, I made about $80. Um, so that's was sort of the first amount of money I made. Um, yeah. And I was, we were actually backpacking at the time we're backpacking in south America and I was just like, you stopped off at like a cafe or maybe it was a hotel we were at. And I just thought, you know, I was just monetize it with Zoe and then turned around like a month later and got my first $80 check. And I was like, this is cool. I could live this life of just backpacking around and making 80 bucks a month. Hopefully that'll become 8,000 bucks a month, one day. And I can just back back around and do whatever I want. Speaker 1 00:08:18 Well, what was it say Dawn? Was it, was it about your traveling around at the time or was it on something completely different? He Speaker 2 00:08:23 Was on something completely different. I won't share the niche, but yeah, it was, uh, it wasn't about travel. Speaker 1 00:08:29 Right. Okay. Nice. So you'd already had some experience then before you moved to Canada and decided you were going to do this full time, like where were you at with your, your, your sites when you, when you moved to Canada, did you have somebody set up for some generating revenue or you you'd not starting again? Speaker 2 00:08:47 The first website I ever made was when, when I moved to Canada. Speaker 1 00:08:52 So what was this like when you were traveling around? No, that Speaker 2 00:08:54 Was so sorry. I should say when we moved to Canada, we didn't first settle in Vancouver. We were staying at a ski town for like a year. And then we went down to backpack central America for six months and I was building websites the whole time. Right. But I kind of consider that all sort of the move away from the corporate career sort of thing. And now, Speaker 1 00:09:16 Yeah. So that's, that's really cool. So you, but how did you know about this whole world that you do where you're just following people and then when you moved to Canon leaf, I'm just going to jump in. I'm going to start, I'm going to make, make a site. I originally Speaker 2 00:09:28 Thought that I would make a website on you to me, not a website, I course on you, you to me. So I was like, yeah, maybe I could make a course on how to do podcasting or I was trying to brainstorm courses to do. And then I would listen to podcasts where people would say, well, you told me you never going to make a great living out of cars. You sell a course for like 10 bucks, a pop it's no, no use. And then I sort of stumbled into this idea. Well, if you make a website and then get people to your website, then you can sell a course for two or $300 instead of $10 age. So that got me down the idea of thinking, well, instead of making a course right now, I should try to get an audience and then sell them the course later on. But since then, the concept of having a course has totally fallen off. And, and all I want to do is make money from display ads now. Speaker 1 00:10:18 Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Well, you've been pretty successful at this. So when, how long ago has it been since you were to can, there was a couple of years now. Speaker 2 00:10:27 Yeah, it was late 2019, I think. Yeah. And I, uh, pretty much set up a website within weeks of getting to Canada because I was in Canada on a tourist visa at the time. So I couldn't really work here. So I was just like, what am I going to do with my time as well, make a website. Speaker 1 00:10:46 Nice. All right. Well, 20, 19 to 2021. So fast forward, literally like three years, basically two or three years. And, um, I know that you used to do on your, uh, on your website and your YouTube channel, which is, which is great by the way. I think everyone should check it out. We'll put some, some links in the description below, but you kind of stop reporting your income figures when you got to a certain amounts. Um, which I think is fair. I think you were very open and honest up till that point. So, um, but you've got to about three, three and a half thousand dollars a month in revenue, and this was kind of mid 2020. So really like I went from nothing to a fairly decent income in, in just over a year, which is, which is incredible. I take my hat off hat off to your weather, Speaker 2 00:11:29 Right. I, yeah, I hope I haven't got my timelines. Right. I hope I haven't got my timeline drive, but yeah, something along those lines, I think it might've been 18 months. So maybe I got here in 2018. It's just, Speaker 3 00:11:40 It's all good. But yeah, essentially Speaker 2 00:11:44 I was teaching for a university for a little while in, uh, when I was living in Canada and when I quit there, it was 18 months after I started my site. So it took me 18 months to reach full-time living from my sites. Speaker 1 00:12:00 Nice. It's still really quick. That's still incredibly quick. So, I mean, yeah, I don't want to talk about them because I'm like back in July when I watched your, your last income reports and you kind of got, you had these five sites, two, three, you just set up and two, um, we kind of like your main revenue drivers and those two sites. I think it's really cool because one was a, an Amazon affiliate website and one was a display and monetize for display ads. And like most people pick one or the other, like, it's very rare to see someone who's been successful with them, both. And that's kind of where the meat of it. What I want to talk about is like the difference between the boat, because it's, it's, it's a totally different setter, but it's a different way of selecting the niche. It's a different way of keyword research. And I think you've got a unique perspective and that you've come at it from both angles. And hopefully you can share some experience and light on how you did that. Um, so back in, back in July, these sites combined are making three, three and a half thousand dollars. Um, and we call them w one and W2 just for like ease of use. So w one is the display ad website and W2 is the Amazon site. How are these sites doing now? Are they still around? He's still working on them and we sold them. Speaker 2 00:13:13 Yeah. So both of them are still doing well. They're still growing. They've grown month on month. I, the display ad site, which is essentially making all its money from display ads. I think I'm making maybe like somewhere between 507 50 a month on Amazon for that site, but it's mostly just display ads monetize through Zoellick and it's just, it's the little engine that could, it just pumps along, makes me feel comfortable that, that site's always there giving me enough money to live off each month so I can go off and just play with my other sites and, and, you know, have a go at different niches and see if I can, I can make money from other sites. So that's sort of, that's my safety blanket website, uh, and it just keeps on going, which is really, really nice. And then the affiliate site is still going along quite well as well. Speaker 2 00:14:07 Uh, it kept growing for a few months after I stopped reporting on it. And then it's sort of like a lot of websites. It kind of, it grows, it grows, it grows, and then it sort of hits a plateau and it just, just hovers at that plateau. Um, so it's been hovering at that plateau for maybe five months now, and it's a nice plateaued. It, it, it makes decent money and yeah, I'm trying to sell that one at the moment. So I'm hoping for that one to be my first six figure exit, uh, you know, hopefully someone will snatch it. Speaker 1 00:14:39 That'd be awesome. Yeah. Huge. Congratulations on that. That's, uh, when that deal closes, like it'll change your life forever, the feeling of that deal. It's great. Speaker 2 00:14:48 Yeah. Crossing it. Yeah. Really hoping that it happens Speaker 1 00:14:52 Well. Yeah. Good luck with that. Um, okay. So, so they're both still doing well. Um, I want to dive a little bit into like the, the approach that you took with them. Um, cause they've obviously been, been successful, but the approach is probably different because one is informational and one's like affiliate based. Um, so on the information I'll say, can you, can you take us through like your full end to end approach starting with, with niche selection? Like how did you, how did you come up with a niche for, for instance, or how do you come up with a niche for an informational site? Um, what are you looking for when you're selecting that? Speaker 2 00:15:27 So for my first informational site, it was essentially just a hobby. It was something that I didn't put that much thought into it because I was at a point where I was just like, I didn't know better. I didn't know better to have to do like all this in-depth keyword research and actually going back and looking at the first hundred articles on that site, probably the first 30 of them never ranked at all. And then you can kind of go and you can look back at the articles and you can see as you scroll through my posts list on WordPress, that I got better and better and better at choosing keywords. And then the next, like maybe the next 70 to get me to a hundred, they were probably still too competitive. But the fact that I had written 3000 word, 2,500 words, sort of ultimate guide sort of stuff for all of these ones, they were just ranking for a ton of long tail keywords that I maybe wasn't even intentionally targeting. Speaker 2 00:16:27 So I did get quite lucky just the fact that I just went deep on all of the articles and I was just so enthusiastic about creating the best articles that I could, um, that I probably wouldn't do that now, like for my current case study site on that is also a display ad monetized, primarily it was a much more structured niche selection where essentially I had found a few keywords that I was ranking really well for on another one of my sites. And I went, Hey, this is actually a really good keyword that I could make an entire website out of. So I just kind of pivoted that to a new website and, um, and yet it's doing really well and thing I would probably put down to that one is niche selection. I was a much more thoughtful about choosing the keywords that I knew that I could rank for, even if I wasn't going to build links. Speaker 1 00:17:25 Interesting. So you kind of use the one side to springboard into another. So it does that, the first thing that comes to mind when you say that is how, how big is the, is this niche that you've built a new site around? Is it quite narrow or is it still quite broad in the sense that it, you know, you just saw like a really broad keyword and thought, oh, that could be, that could be good. Speaker 2 00:17:46 It is quite narrow. So my thought process for the new one was to try to achieve topical relevance by going more narrow. And it turns out that even though it is quite narrow in a sense, there's still a lot of key words within that narrow scope. So I'll probably get to maybe four or 500 keywords before I, I sort of go, oh, maybe I'm going to have to broaden this out a little bit and make it and write about things that aren't specifically relevant to the domain name. Uh, but yeah, it was the intention for my newer one was to, to go more narrow. Speaker 1 00:18:24 Okay. Uh, I get, is it easier to pick a niche when you're looking at an informational site versus like a product based Amazon? Speaker 2 00:18:31 Oh, absolutely. I mean like that's the whole reason that I'm pivoting more and more and more towards informational sites is it's easy to pick a niche cause there's a lot more that you can look for. Like when I'm looking for a niche in selling products, I need to find a product that is, has got low competition on the SERPs for its sort of best X for wise or product versus product. And that's quite a saturated. The SERPs is pretty saturated for a lot of products, especially if the products are sold on Amazon. And then I want to say, well, can I start selling the product on Amazon, but then pivot to a relationship with the affiliate manager in that company and try to get those affiliates up to 10 or 15%. So there's the rules essentially around choosing a niche in affiliate, I feel are a lot Speaker 1 00:19:23 Tougher. Yeah. A hundred percent agree. Yeah. I, we thought about this a little bit later on, I think, because I think that that's a whole subject on its own, but, um, yeah, I a hundred percent agree with you. It's, it's, it's so, so much more difficult to just do a pure product Amazon site these days, but w when you're picking your, your niche for your informational site, are you taking anything into consideration? Like, um, um, you know, what the potential RPMs could be, or are you using any metrics to kind of give you an idea of like, yeah, I can get traffic, but is this traffic actually going to be worth anything on a display revenue sense? Speaker 2 00:19:57 Honestly, this is my weakness. I, every time I create a display outside, like this one that I'm currently working on my case study on my YouTube channel, I'm about to hit 12 months, um, just toward the end of 11 months. I'm pretty sure I'll get to a hundred thousand page views within 12 months. And I did that for my first display outside as well. So I don't have any trouble getting traffic, but I'm also getting EPM fees with Zoellick down around that $8, $8 50 mark. So it's just for me on both of those sites, it's just a numbers game. Just put out as much content as you can get 500,000 page views a month and bank through that. So I'm not sure it was entirely intentional, but I guess the intention behind it is I'm going for the lowest competition keywords I can possibly find. And I know that even a really low competition keyword where, you know, 30% of my traffic is coming from the Philippines is still going to be getting me an EPM VI of around about $8 50. So, you know, if I get a hundred thousand, uh, page views really easy, is it really that different to getting a hundred thousand page views really difficultly over a longer period of time? It's probably as all going to come out in the wash. So my strategy is essentially just being like, just rank for anything. Speaker 1 00:21:24 No, it's a good strategy. You know what, honestly, something I've never really considered much until recently. And it was, my eyes were only open to it more so because, um, we created a website for a, for a customer that was in, it would typically be in like your calling your money, your life space, and like the finance slash kind of like, um, finance slash legal space, I guess. Uh, and we went at it from a question based perspective. So it's all the long tail question-based stuff. And it started getting traffic really quick. Um, and the EPMS, he, he got it, he's getting like 50 to $70. I was like, wow, I got this kind of lab where you really don't need much traffic to make decent money. And then I did something just clicked. I thought, well, yeah, like what what's best is it, is it going for like hundreds of thousands of page? We was always going for like 50,000, but with a crazy high, a crazy high rates, I don't know what the answer is, but I just thought that was really cool to see. And it just, it just triggered something to think about. Speaker 2 00:22:25 Yeah. I don't, I honestly, I do think that that would be amazing. I wish that I could make a site that was just getting $50 APM BS and I don't care if it's something getting 20,000 pages that would be amazing. And one day hopefully I'll do it, but I'm just so adverse to competition and risk that I just it's, it's the path of least resistance. And I guess it goes back to this idea of me trying to build a lifestyle more than build this sort of publishing empire. The less self me is not that I want to spend all day every day, sending out outreach emails to get backlinks in order to finally rank an article. I would rather just pump out like five blog posts a day or something and just get tons of traffic. It's just a different model. Speaker 1 00:23:18 Oh yeah. Yes. It's definitely. Uh, and I actually like your model it's it's the John Dykstra model, right? It's exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So keyword research obviously sounds like it plays a big part in your, in this method because it sounds like he didn't quite do it right to start with, and those blog posts didn't quite go anywhere. And it's funny that you saw them improve over time. Um, can you share some, some detail around how you approach a keyword research? Speaker 2 00:23:44 Yeah. My approach to keyword research has changed over time as well. So if you went to some of my earlier YouTube videos, you would see that I was very focused on looking at the SERPs and seeing if there were low da competitors on the SERPs. And I think I would still do that if I was building out Amazon affiliate sites as aggressively as I was 18 months ago, but now it's mostly around going to the search and seeing is anyone targeting the same keyword in each one? So if you spend, if you spend three or four hours just doing a Google auto suggest, finding Google loaders to just keywords or finding keywords using HRS, or however you want to find keywords and then going to the SERPs and just eyeballing the subs, there's a good chance that you'll be able to find plenty of keywords that are not even in the H ones of any of the articles ranking on the first page of Google. So that's firstly great science, Amir. It's like if, if no one else is targeting directly this keyword and everyone's just putting it in the H two S halfway down their pages, I'm going to create a page to targets directly that keyword does a really good job of it. And then it'll probably outrank them. Other things that I look at is obviously hoping that Reddit and Quora, uh, owning the SERPs or any other forums that are in the niche or owning the SERPs, then I'm going for it. Speaker 1 00:25:14 That's really, that's really interesting because, and I've seen something similar. I've seen more and more this recently where, because people sometimes talk about their approach to keyword research being almost the opposite of that in that they'll Google something like a keyword. And, um, like they'll see that the websites on page one aren't specifically optimized for that keyword. Therefore Google like thinks the intent is different and then they will create that. But more and more I've seen. And we'll talk about this later on, because I think this is probably where this comes into play. Even more is what I am seeing now is when you Google that keyword, like the featured snippet will be optimized for that. And then the rest of the articles will be. And I think because you just put out some awesome information on winning featured snippets, which I want to go into later, but I think that probably plays hand in hand with each other. Speaker 2 00:26:01 Yeah. That's a really interesting thought. I'm going to make sure that I keep an eye on that. Now. It hadn't really crossed my mind. Speaker 1 00:26:08 Have you used anything like, um, well, what am I, one of my next questions is any tools you use, but I know back then, um, Adler's keyword chef tool is really good for also pushing on keywords that have lots of forums and Reddit and things are glad on page one. Have you ever tried that? Speaker 2 00:26:25 I haven't tried Benz tool. I generally am pretty big on ARS. I'll I'll buy a month of HRS and then cancel my month and try to get all my keyword research done within that month. And it's literally less than a month later where I'm like, no, I'm sorry. I need AHS back again. So I am pretty addicted to HRS. Um, yeah, but to be honest, like the best tool is just Google searching keywords on Google and seeing what it's suggesting and eyeballing this ups, because, you know, even with HRS, I can spit out a ton of awesome keywords for me. But even after that, I'm still going back to Google and looking at the serves because I need to know what the SERPs genuinely look like before I make any decisions. So, you know, I think that anyone could probably build a website just straight up from looking at Google and not using any tools at all, because it's a really good tool. Speaker 1 00:27:23 Yeah. Yeah. Just a bit of common sense, looking at Google and some common sense. Right. And a spreadsheet. Yeah, exactly. Pretty much. Okay. Um, how are you structuring these sites? Because I had this, there's so much information about how people should structure sites and things like, um, you know, we're using silos. Are you hard using hard silos, virtual silos? Like, are you pretty much the author or is it just doesn't really make too much of a difference for your process? Yeah. I Speaker 2 00:27:51 Am putting a lot of thought into it. I used to sort of do, I guess, what you would call virtual silos where I didn't have the sort of sub categories in the URL, um, ever since going to hard silos where I've got the sub categories in the URL and I'm planning out the categories more and never going to go back because it just, it feels so much cleaner for me to do it that way. Um, so I am doing hard silos these days and I'm trying to plan them out before I build out a website. Uh, having said that I don't think that you have to, I mean, I've got plenty of successful websites that don't do that. And then for my link building, I essentially just, uh, sorry for my internal linking. I essentially just use link whisper and, and Linquist has got cool tools in it now, like, uh, you can only, only linking within a certain category. Speaker 2 00:28:43 For example, I'll usually check that box on limp whisper and then link whisper or find link opportunities only within the category. Uh, so that's kind of the main way that I'll interlink within the silos. Uh, if I were on Amazon affiliate sites. So if we would go to go back to all the animals on affiliate sites, I own, I'm a lot more intentional about here's the best X for Y that I want to rank for. Um, so seven best lamps. And then I will write a review of each of the lamps. And then the end of each review, I would have a link off to every individual land and I'd have a review of every individual land as well, so that they are sort of surrounding the central best X for Y. And then at the bottom of the best X for Y articles, my best X, Y articles are usually up around three or 4,000 words at the bottom of that. I'll have sort of the buyer's guide. And in the buyer's guide, I'll be linking off to things like how to change a light bulb, how to turn on a lamp, all of that stuff. So I'm very intentional around building informational content around the individual product reviews and the individual product reviews around the best X for Y in order to create as much topical relevance as possible. Speaker 1 00:29:57 Would they, would they also link back to the best X, Y page as well? Or are you just linking from the best X out? Speaker 2 00:30:03 I personally, I do wink back. I know that there's so many different theories about silo structure. Um, one of the reasons that I do link back is because it does my head in when I'm on link whisper and it it's telling me that I've got orphaned pages because I'm only linking in one direction and I'm just like, I can't do that. It, it, it hurts my head to see orphaned pages on my website. And yeah, so that's kind of a main reason I guess, but I've also sort of followed some gurus in the space who also link back yeah. Back and forth. And I'm just like, well, if it's good enough for this guys probably banking 5 million bucks a month and it's good enough for me. Speaker 1 00:30:46 Nice. Awesome. That's a good tip. Okay. And then, so on the, uh, on the display ad, I know it's, you mentioned it's mainly he's awake and then you've got some, some Amazon affiliate stuff on there as well. Um, but one thing which I want to talk about, because I don't really see, I know John Dykstra mentioned has mentioned this before, but I only see many other people talking about this and that's a use an exit intent pop up as well. Right? Speaker 2 00:31:11 Yeah. I was, I've actually taken that down recently. Um, partially because I got rid of elemental and I was building it with elemental, but yeah, I was using it and it was, it was getting results Speaker 1 00:31:25 So well, before we move on to the element thing, w what, what were you like, how are you, how are you using these accident in 10 pop-ups? Was it just like, what kind of offers were you running in there? What were best for those? Speaker 2 00:31:39 Sure. So they were SAS products that had free trials. So I would say, I'll go, actually, I think all of this category on this website is, has people coming to this website who would have an interest in this SAS product, it's got a free trial, so I can just pull up, do a pop-up and it's got like me standing there, um, sort of smiling, trying to build some crab and then a quote from me next to it saying, you know, Chris recommends this SAS product, and guess what? It's a hundred percent free for the first month. So you may as well give it a go and then click this link. I click the link and download the SAS products. And a certain percentage of them will end up buying the pro version and then I get money from it. But, um, it was, it was important to me to choose one that had a free trial of a product so that the people who it would just increase my click through rate, because they weren't actually going to buy something straight away. Speaker 1 00:32:44 That makes sense. Did you test anything other than SAS products or was it just mainly SAS products you tested there? Speaker 2 00:32:50 I did try out my own ebook and it was a complete failure, I think, like I had literally millions of people coming through my website and seeing that pop up and zero sale, Speaker 1 00:33:01 God, well, you're doing the whole press done and their things out. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:33:07 I found a, uh, a website that could make what looked like a ebook so that you could create the book cover and it's got the books sitting sort of slightly open, so you can see the pages inside. And I put that like, as if I was holding it and nothing works. Speaker 1 00:33:24 That's crazy. Okay. Interesting. So you, so you, you had stopped that now because you're moving away from elements or, um, does that mean you move in your whole site away from elevate or just the posts? Um, what's that approach? Speaker 2 00:33:40 Yeah, I essentially like Zoellick was bugging me about getting rid of elemental for a long time. So I finally just went, look, I will get rid of elemental. And I've realized that I only had about maybe 20 or 30 posts that were on elemental plus my homepage and the reason I was using it was really for the main homepage. So I essentially just went through all of those posts, reverted them back to Gutenberg, and then with Gutenberg blocks now, especially if you get the ultimate add on it's, you can essentially recreate the look of elemental really quickly with Gutenberg blocks. So I just recreated the look. It looks exactly the same as it did with elemental and now elemental is not there, although I do constantly stumble upon elemental code that they've left, lying around my website everywhere. Speaker 1 00:34:24 Okay. So you've got to delete that rubbish then. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:34:27 Yeah. I mean, I, I'm a bit lazy. Like I just deleted if I find it, you know, Speaker 1 00:34:33 Did you find that your, your websites beat it up much after you got rid of elemental? Yeah. See, Speaker 2 00:34:38 I was doing too many things at once to know exactly what it was that sped it up, but, um, yeah, I mean, I've recently put leap on as well, so that probably had an impact. So none of my sites are passing core web vitals. They're all in the sort of either green, you know, how there's those three core web vitals categories. I'm usually like Greenville one and Amber for two or green for two and Amber for one or something like that. Um, but then when I check against my competitors or my competitors are red for all of them. So, you know, what's the point of trying to win a race by a thousand miles when you can win it by it. Speaker 1 00:35:13 Yeah. And I think it's going to be, I mean, and I'm no a normal fortune teller or anything, but I think, I think it's not going to be a massive impact perform from Google. I think it's going to be some kind of like tie indicator where if there's you want another website that I, you know, neck and neck Google might use it to, to determine who they're going to push up one. Um, so the fact that all your competitors are red, probably a good sign for you that you don't have to be green. Speaker 2 00:35:41 Exactly. That's, that's what I'm hoping. And I, I'm also hoping that, that it's not as big a deal as everyone's making it out to be, but yeah, I mean, who knows that sometimes Google just goes really hard at things and then rolls it back over the next few months. So maybe they'll just, just tank everyone who knows, Speaker 1 00:35:58 How are you finding leap by the way? I know it's quite new. And, uh, I see some people loved it. Some people had issues setting it up and it broke things. What's your experience been like? Speaker 2 00:36:07 Well, essentially, like when you turn leap on, so leap is the new site seed Expedia accelerator for Zoe and it's free when you turn it on, there's an option or it says you can either set it up yourself or get a manager to set it up. And I just said, get us set it up. And they set it all up for me and email me back a couple of days later. And they said, yep, this is all set up. And then I, uh, went to, they've got this technology's page. It says what you should do. And there are things like get rid of certain fonts. So I just changed a couple of fonts, get rid of these plugins, got rid of the plugins, not a big deal. So I just followed their instructions and it was all pretty straightforward. And, and it, it was at least as good as sitespeed accelerator, maybe a little bit better, and now it's free. So Speaker 1 00:36:54 Happy day. Better. Nice. I want curiosity. Yeah. I'm assuming you've been invited into these old program, the premium program. Do you, do you pay for that? Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah. I, um, obviously you make more than you because I, I, I see people talking about this in the, in the groups all the time as well about why do is already charge you for premium and give it back to you on the backend. Like, it's obviously a good thing for you, I'm assuming because of the size of the sites that you have in there. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:37:25 So obviously I would prefer if they, they just did a revenue share model. Um, but you know, for whatever reason, I think that they should be doing it this way. So it still makes sense to me to pay for. Um, and I just put it on my credit card, get the miles, write it off on tax. It's not a big deal. My accountant deals with it. Speaker 1 00:37:47 Cool. So one thing would show, would you haven't asked you directly, but you've kind of answered is, is about content creation. It sounds like you write in a lot of this content yourself. Is that, is that right? Yeah. So I have Speaker 2 00:38:02 Five riders. I think two of them are essentially full time. They're writing an article a day for me, essentially, if not more. Yeah. And then the other ones are just a couple of guys who I think the university students and, uh, they will just send me some content when they feel like sending me content essentially. And I'm fine with that. And, uh, that's all for one website that I don't report on in any of my YouTube stuff, but it's just this website that I'm entirely outsourcing. I went and HRS found 600 keywords and just sent 600 keywords to all my writers and said, go for it. And once those 600 articles are done, I'll get a dress, get another 600 keywords and send them out to them. So I'm not doing any content for that site. And I'm adding maybe, well, at least 60 articles a month to it. And I'm just the manager for that site. And then for my sites that, so essentially my four core sites or my three core sites, because one of them's essentially failed. Um, I'm writing all the content for them. So I'll essentially my daily routine is wake up and try to finish an article by midday. If I press publish on an article, it's a great day. If I press publish on another article at the end of the day, it's an even better day, but try to get out an article a day list. Speaker 1 00:39:26 That's I think that's what a lot of people struggle with that. Like a lot of people hate writing. I got my first website. I did all the writing myself and I'm not a writer. Like I hate writing especially about stuff. I don't know. Like it might be different if you're, if you know about the niche, but I literally had no idea about the topic I was writing about either. Um, I hated that it was so hard to stay motivated. It was so hard to, you know, crank another one out and learn more about these products that I frankly didn't really care about. And so Speaker 2 00:40:00 I'm assuming that you outsource all of your content at the moment, then Speaker 1 00:40:04 I own a content agency now, so it's true. So yeah, I don't do any, I don't do any writing anymore, but even after that, so after that I sold the first website and I promised myself I would, would not do any write in again, just because of the whole experience. It was the bit that I hated the most. Um, and then I flipped it around between the I'm trying to find reliable app for reliable freelancers and different agencies. And sure. I'm sure that our audience are kind of sick of hearing the story, but that's how we started our agency. Cause I couldn't find anyone that I trusted enough or liked enough to do it. So build our own team, but yeah. How do you stay? How do you stay focused on that? Right. Every day, day in, day out. One Speaker 2 00:40:47 Of the things is you just said that you writing about products that you don't particularly care for. That's one of the reasons I don't do Amazon affiliate as much, not only because it's more competitive, cause I just don't care for writing about products. It's not interesting to me. So yeah. I mean it is boring writing every day, but, um, I, I feel as if maybe it's that I'm, I'm conscious of the fact that I have a really privileged lifestyle brand, like, or a lifestyle business, I should say I'm waking up and I'm just writing a blog post and pressing publish on it. And I don't have a boss. I don't have meetings. I don't have colleagues that annoy me. I don't have students sending me a thousand emails like that is all I care. That's all I want in life to be left alone. And if I'm being left alone, writing blog posts about topics that I get to choose, then I'm, I'm really don't care if it's a little bit boring, Speaker 1 00:41:47 What do you put it like that? I mean, this it's better than that. We're going to job. Speaker 2 00:41:51 Like I went to the park the other day with a bunch of friends and it was Friday afternoon and they would just sit in there, moaning for hours, about how much they hated their jobs and how much they hated their bosses. And I was just like, I didn't want to say anything, but I just thought, wow, I am so glad that I make websites for a living. Cause I don't have to. I remember I was this person two years ago. Speaker 1 00:42:12 Yeah. Yeah. So just, Speaker 2 00:42:14 Just be grateful that all I have to do is write blog posts. Speaker 1 00:42:18 You know, when you put it like that, I guess that's a pretty easy way to stay motivated is how friends who hate their job. Yeah, exactly. It's all for them once a week. Cool. Okay. Um, just go back to the difference then between like an a, an a, an affiliate site and an informational site. So back in July, and I'm not sure how many posts are on there now, but back back in July, the, the display ad website had like almost 250 posts and an Amazon site dad's 80, 85 posts. Um, I guess, does that mean your ROI was better on the Amazon side because there's less posts or you mentioned that your best off guides are like three, 4,000 words. Was it roughly same would come over all? Like what, what do you think best ROI there? Speaker 2 00:43:05 I would, I would say that the ROI ROI is significantly better with Amazon affiliate. If I'm just building out a website with Amazon affiliate, it's probably less work. I probably don't enjoy the work nearly as much, but to, to hit $3,000 a month, personally, I feel as if the work is probably not as much work, uh, I probably will, you know, writing a hundred articles that are Amazon affiliate review articles. I could probably only crank one of them out a day, whereas I could crank a few blog posts out a day for my informational site. So that does sort of balance it out a little bit, but on balance, just as a personal sort of subjective thing, it does seem like it's easier and faster to get an Amazon affiliate site up to a quit your job income. Um, but it's just not what I enjoy. Speaker 1 00:43:54 Yeah. Yeah. You're all about the lifestyle of a have quickly found out. Yeah. Nice. Okay. Um, have you always built from scratch and ever bought the site or have you ever worked on expired domains? Speaker 2 00:44:08 It never works on an unexpired domain. I, I am intrigued by the idea of buying expired domains, especially because of all these Google indexing issues of the last couple of last 12 months or so every single one of my new sites, I'm constantly having to go back and check if it's reading the site maps check, if it's just keeping things out of the index, randomly re-injecting things like there's so many problems around the Google index at the moment that the idea of buying an expired domain is increasingly attractive to me with the idea that it's already got a crawl budget, for example. Um, so that does appeal to me, but I just don't know enough about it. And I'd have to listen to a whole bunch of podcasts about it and read a bunch of articles about it before I sort of threw myself into it. And then the other part of it is I really liked sitting around on Namecheap coming up with domain names for hours on end, so Speaker 1 00:45:05 Nice. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Expired the minutes are nevermind. Feel like, um, we, we did a whole episode on, on eight things of what you should look for in buying an expired domain. And like, it was like an hour long, just talking about like top level, what you should look for, because there's so many, it's only small things that can trip you up. Um, I remember one of, one of our customer centers and they're expensive and I run over one of our customer centers, a demeaning to, to vet for him. Um, and it was, it was four or $5,000. Um, and I mean, we, we put it through our process and it, it almost passed like, or everything looked great. Like everything looked great apart from him, one of the way back instances where you can check like what the site used to be about. Um, I couldn't find any outbound links on it, but the title tag on the page, uh, had something to do with Viagra in there. And that was it that I couldn't find any outbound links to any other website. It was just that title. And I was like, dude, I can't find anything wrong apart from that, but you don't want to spend four or 5,000 just, just in case. Like, and it was still so easy to miss, so easy. Speaker 2 00:46:18 Yeah, exactly. See, that's one of the reasons why I'm just, I'm a bit nervous to do it. Speaker 1 00:46:24 One of your one. So one of your sites, the W2, you mentioned back in July when you launched it. Well, when you were talking about it, then it had been live for five months, but you'd registered the domain. Like the domain had been registered for 11 months. Was the site live for those couple of months before you actually started pushing content? Or was it just registered it and you didn't, you hadn't set anything up. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:46:47 So that, that was like this interesting thing that, that I sort of stumbled upon was I created this website. Um, it was actually when I was backpacking, I was like, I was listening to a Doug Cunnington, uh, podcasts. And he was at the time going on and on about how good Amazon affiliate is. And I didn't own an Amazon affiliate site at the time. So I was like, I just came up with a niche idea that I think would be pretty good, but I don't really have time to work on it right now. So I wrote, I think it was somewhere between five and 10 articles, put them on, made sure they were indexed and then ignored it until I got back to Canada after I was backpacking in south America. And when I got back to Canada, I started adding content at around about the six month mark. And it, it was indexed for six months already. And then I just started adding this content and these content started ranking like within, you know, four or five weeks. And I was kind of like, did I just manage to avoid the sandbox by indexing a website with a couple of articles on it and just wait six months? Yeah. So it was an interesting little case study. Speaker 1 00:47:50 Yeah. Yeah. Cause my, my mark, my co-founder had a similar experience where he puts, um, he posts, there's only like less than 10 posts on a site. And then he literally forgot about it until he was looking through his analytics one day and like, oh, check this out. So I was doing like 10,000 visits a month on what's going on here. And he started adding content now and it's taken off really well, like, but he did the same thing. Like put a couple of articles and thought, I'd come back to this, but you forgot about it for, for a longer time. Um, yeah. I wonder if that, I wonder if that's an actual, like, strategy that you could do rather than buying spider meaning to try and skip the sandbox. Like, could you just push out five or 10 of these sites with 10 articles on each and just leave them set for six months and by when I was doing okay and go from there, Speaker 2 00:48:40 To be honest, I actually have a few of them that I'm probably never going to go back to them all, but if I get a Nisha idea, I just go, yeah. Maybe I'll just register a domain and write a couple of articles and put them up. And they're just like these sleeper sites. So that one day, if I've got nothing going on, I'll go, oh, I'm going to work on that side for a couple months. Speaker 1 00:48:56 Yeah. Nice. If you can sell them, like you could sell that. Speaker 2 00:48:59 Yeah. Potentially. Yeah. I mean, they're not making any money. Speaker 1 00:49:03 No. True. Yeah. Um, you mentioned a couple of people, like they used to follow back in the day when you started. Um, and you've obviously seen, you'd be really successful with it. So we, have you followed any kind of course or framework or methodology for this, or did you just kind of figure it out yourself as you went through this or yeah, Speaker 2 00:49:23 I guess my mentality toward all of this sort of learning how to do all of this is that it's all available for you out there. You've just got to piece it all together. So, you know, so thinking about the value of a course, I see it as one, someone's put all of this information together in a linear fashion for you and taking you step by step through it. Cause it's like, it's not, none of this is a secret. Yeah. You know, there's so many podcasts talking about all the strategies. So what is the value of a course, someone putting it together for you for a linear fashion or someone who's like, I need to put down $300 in order to motivate myself to make sure that I pushed through it. And I didn't, I didn't think that I needed either of those things. I was motivated enough and I, I could piece together the knowledge. Speaker 2 00:50:14 So I never really bothered with the course, but in terms of like, if there was a certain guru or whatever that I choose to be my guru at different times, there were different people. So there was a while where I was just like really hot on the Matt diggity method. And I was just like doing everything Matt diggity did. And that's, this was back when I was creating affiliate sites and he's obviously big on link building. So I was following him with the link building and making sure you do the social fortress and things. And then as I sort of evolved, I've moved more towards sort of following more of a John Dykstra for awhile. So I just kind of go here there and everywhere and pick things up from different people depending on the mood I'm in. Speaker 1 00:50:59 Yeah. I think that's a great approach, to be honest, just be fluid, be flexible, see what's working best for other people. Like, um, I'm a massive fan of not reinventing the wheel twice. Like for, for everything. Like if I can see something successful for somebody else, then how do I do it the same or better? And that's a methodology. We, we interpret for our keyword research as well. If we find sites that are doing well, that are weaker than us. Like how do you imitate them with that job? So, yeah, I'm talking about man, I'm big, big fan of that. Okay. Um, we're coming close to the end here, but there's one thing which I want to, I want to cover off quite a bit because it ties into what we spoke about earlier about featured snippets. Um, and you you've worked with this framework, which I think is awesome, like, um, about winning featured snippets. Speaker 1 00:51:47 And I think it would give some awesome, uh, value to our audience. <inaudible> I've got your basically come up with, um, we linked to the video, but you basically come up with seven, um, tips on how to win a featured, snip in we'd be on featured snippets. Most of the keyword research we do is based around keywords that are eligible for featured snippets. And so I think this is great. Um, do you just kind of want, if I give you like a title of these seven things, just give us your, your input on them or why you think for the sneaker snippet. So first one is, um, copied the current snippet. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:52:24 That's so that's so straightforward, but yeah, I mean, I'm probably getting ahead of myself. Cause you might mention this in another step, but you look at the current snippet and there's all these texts in bold and it's, it's seemingly so obvious that Google is just like, oh, this person is using all these words that are LSI phrases or whatever of this topic. And they've used it five times. So I'm going to go in and I'm going to use that, those similar words, six or seven times. And all of a sudden Google is like, oh, well this person's better. I mean, this, the featured snippet is quite simple compared to a lot of the other things within the Google algorithm, they show you what they're doing. Speaker 1 00:53:04 Yeah. Okay. No, that that's good. Okay. Um, the next one is, uh, write your definitions, which are 40 to 60 words long it's kind of self explanatory, but yeah. Speaker 2 00:53:15 Yeah, quite simple. And I think, uh, I had some friends who were saying that income school has a similar approach to this. And, uh, I think something that income school did, uh, they, I think they interviewed all the people in their course and ask people in their course, like how long their text is for their featured snippet and all the people in their course were saying, yeah, we've got within this like very defined length, 40 to 60 words or whatever it is. And it seems to be that that's the sweet spot that Google's like, yeah, that sounds great. Speaker 1 00:53:46 Nice. Um, create, so there's three different types of snippets. So you've got the list, the paragraph and what's the table one table. Yeah. Um, so for the list, one is create the list directly under optimized, teach two tags. Speaker 2 00:54:04 Yeah. Super easy, super straightforward. I find that it's one of the things that works best is just optimized dates to bullet points. Speaker 1 00:54:12 Yeah. Um, and so the questions immediately at the top of the article, which I thought was really cool, because this is such a quick win, like the example you gave, where you moved your basically the paragraph, a text from three quarters of the way down to the top of the article, like such a quick wind. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:54:30 That is, it is like, this is totally subjective and I may be completely wrong, but it seems to me as if, if your snippet is further up the page than someone else's bit, that would be the featured snippet. You get a slight advantage in whatever their snip-it algorithm is. So the quote further is at the top of the page, I feel as if the more likely it is Google is going to pick it up, whether that's true or not. I don't know. I don't have data. Speaker 1 00:54:58 Uh, tables can win snippets too. Speaker 2 00:55:01 Oh yeah. I'll tell you, there was an update in October last year. It was like five days before prime day. And I got slammed for one of my affiliate sites just before prime day, which was like devastating for me. But when I went through it, one thing that I realized was Google just took away all of my tables, snippets of me in that update. But yeah, up until that point, I was just absolutely killing it, making tables and just Google was putting all my tables into the snippet. So I don't know, like I do feel as if the snippets kind of losing is less and less common. Now maybe, you know, people were saying that may have to do with that. Um, in the United States, there was all this stuff about Google stealing data and putting the data in the snippet. I'm not sure I'm not entirely following it, but yeah, the snippet has kind of, for me, at least I've been winning less and less of the snippet or since it's been just appearing less and less, but there was a wall there lost you and tables were just absolutely killing it. Speaker 1 00:56:05 What were they, what were they replaced with the, the tape? So when you lost the snipper tables, were they just replaced with other snippets or would the snippet just disappear altogether? Speaker 2 00:56:14 So mostly the snippet just disappeared for a few of them. Google decided to stick its own products there, like a carousel on its own products. Speaker 1 00:56:23 Yeah. That's typical Google, isn't it? Yeah. Uh, structure your hitch ties correctly. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:56:31 So you often see there's a, there's actually a plugin for, I'm not sure what the Chrome extension is, but you can use this Chrome extension to see H tags and you can often see that someone jumps from an H one to an H four to an H three to an H four to an H two or something. And it, it jumps too much. And if you just simply go, H H <inaudible> Google can pick that up a little bit better. In my experience, I'll often do a list all my age, like a listicle essentially. And my age two is an optimized like seven best deciduous trees. And then underneath it, it's like one, this tree to that tree in the H twos. And then Google will get all of the sorry in the age threes. And then Google will get all of those age threes and turn them into a list for the snippet. Speaker 1 00:57:27 That makes sense. I, I agree. Uh, the, I use a plugin, a Chrome extension for that call the SEL matter in one click, it gives a nice visual, like overview things, a couple of different ones. But, um, the only thing I think that's good for is having them structured that way is, um, I think more and more importantly, our table of contents for jump links and having your, uh, each tag structured in a, in a nice way. Like that means your table of contents also looks better at the top too. Speaker 2 00:57:53 Oh yeah, of course. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:57:55 Yeah. I'm good. Uh, you, and the last tip you've got is use professional niche language, which I don't think many people actually consider as a, as a thing, but you definitely think it is Speaker 2 00:58:07 Just in terms of, of like, I think the example that I used in that video was I noticed that the Google was loving phrases, like kilometers or miles or that sort of language. Like if it's like how far from Vancouver to Seattle. And if you say use those words, like miles, kilometers, that sort of thing. They're the things that are bolded by Google in a snippet. So it's like, Hey, actually Google is like, noticing that you're using this language and rewarding you for using this language. Um, and I also like going back to the tables, a lot of my tables would rank quite well because I would have like a, if I don't know if I'm selling cars and I'm writing how many pistons the car has, one column would be pistons and then one will be six. Then another one would be eight and then another one would be four and so on. And I was, I was seeming to get rewarded for all these things. Now that I'm talking to you about this, it's sounding like I'm like making up focus, focus. So these are all, all just like my own subjective opinions and not based on data. Speaker 1 00:59:12 No, I haven't. Yeah. I, in all, honestly, you can't really test this stuff because it's difficult to know like why you want a snippet, but I think this is great advice. Like honestly, it's, it's awesome advice. Um, one thing which I've noticed, which I want to add to them, to the end as a, as one of my tips is, um, since the introduction of like passage indexing, one thing which I've noticed, and I don't know if you've seen this is when you sometimes click on a fidget snippet. Now it takes you to the police in the article it's highlighted in yellow, but what I've been noticing more and more of is the featured snippet is made up of more than one sentence. And it's not typically in the same place on the, on the, on the page or like maybe a sentence from the top and then a sentence from the bottom, but they've merged together into the snippet. And if you find that, and then you recreate or rewrite like the two of the two sentences, but together in a, in a shorter paragraph, that's also a nice way of trying to win them too. But basically, oh, I want this, I want this that's and this sentence, but I'm having to take it from two places in this competitive piece. And if you still are curious Google in one concise, you know, next to each other, they'll seem to like that too. Speaker 2 01:00:21 That's great, Adam, I'm going to start doing that too. Speaker 1 01:00:24 Yeah. Yeah. And it's really easy to find, like you just literally have to look for snippets, click on the competitor result and see if like, if the sentences are together and if they're not just add it to yours as one as one block. Yeah. Awesome. Um, the other thing that you mentioned, which I think, uh, which is really interesting is to use the minus U R L operator. I've not come across that before. Um, that's really cool. Speaker 2 01:00:49 I have, I've obviously learned this from someone else, but I don't know who I learned it from, so I can't give them credit. So sorry to the person out there who I learned this off. Um, but yeah, essentially, if you just, if say, um, why a kata, even though it's not even a thing anymore, but why qatar.com is ranking number one ranking for the snippet. And you want to know who's next in line for the snippet, just type in the keyword next to it, write in minus Y cut a.com. And that removes why I caught a, from the, the results. And then whatever is next in line for the snippet will pop into the top into the snippet. So you can essentially keep doing that for you can minus the first person who has a snippet then minus the second person who has the snippet in the minus. The third person has the snippet. And so it gets to you and you can go, okay, I'm fifth in line right now for the snippet. And then you do a little bit of optimization and then you come back the next day and your third in line for the center or your 17 line for the snippets. So you can see whether or not your optimizations are moving you up the priority or not. Speaker 1 01:01:52 That's awesome. Yeah. That's, that's really cool that you can see that. Yeah. And also, I guess it's cool because you can see, I'm assuming the more you do that, the more like commonalities you'll see between like first, second and third position and then compare to yours. Like maybe they're all doing something specific that you're not doing. And you're like, oh yeah, like those three are doing this. I'm not doing that. Like test that out. Yeah. Um, so a quick way, if you've got, if you've got to say currently, and you want to like figure out where do you start optimizing for your featured snippets? And if you've got, if you've got an ear traps account, you can go to, to address the organic keywords list. And then there's the little tick box at the top, and you can just tick featured snippets. And then if you just select the positions two to five, you can literally get all of the keywords that you're currently ranking for that I eligible for featured snippets where you don't have one by already on page five, page one. So I think that's like, if you, if you listen to this now and you think, yeah, I'm going to go in and do everything that Chris just said, because I want to win featured snippets. Like that's a good way to figure out what pages you may want to try and optimize. Speaker 2 01:02:57 Yeah, definitely. And to be honest, like a lot of the time I'll spend an hour trying to win the featured snippet for a high value article and I just can't win it. I try all of my tips and tricks and I just can't do it. So sometimes it takes like, takes a long time for you to finally crack it. Speaker 1 01:03:17 Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it's not even worth it. Sometimes the time spent on trying to get one, like you could have probably did it on a five or 10 and mess around with tests and come back and yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Um, I know you've got your own kind of like newsletter and community of other people where you share this stuff with. Um, where can people find more from you, Chris? Like if they want to learn more about you or follow you, what's the best place for that? Speaker 2 01:03:42 Yeah, for the most part, I just have a YouTube channel, which I I'm not even selling anything. I have the YouTube channel because it's kind of like, I don't really have colleagues to sit and chat with about these things. So YouTube channels for me to get to know people and chat with people about things and share my knowledge and get other people sharing their knowledge with me. So you can go to, if you just type in niche, safari on YouTube, you'll be able to find my YouTube channel and, um, follow me there. Uh, I also have, I do have a newsletter it's sort of, I'll send an email whenever I think about it really. Um, it's the same, the YouTube channel I was trying for a while to do one video a week. And then I kind of realized it was like, what should my priorities be? Should my priority be writing a couple of blog posts? Or should it be creating a YouTube video that isn't really making me any money anyway. So you can, you can follow me at needs safari. I always do my income reports. Um, and the income reports are usually coming outside of the month and then usually one or two other videos throughout the month. But yeah, don't expect consistency from me because I'm just Speaker 1 01:04:51 Doing my own thing. Let me, I forgot to ask you where, where does the name niche safari come from? Like, what was that about? Speaker 2 01:04:58 So when I, when I started the YouTube video YouTube channel, I was intending to each video, look at another niche and say whether or not I would go into that niche. And I did that for like three videos. I think I did gloves and boxing and like baseball. And then I just gave up on that, but I kept the name. Speaker 1 01:05:20 Nice. Awesome. Okay. Is there anything you think that I, that I haven't covered with you, Chris, that you think might be of interest? No. I think we covered a lot of stuff. Um, yeah, it was all good. Cool. Well, Chris, I really appreciate your time. I know our audience is gonna love this one, this, this episode. So, um, yeah, thanks for your time and, and, uh, hope to chat to you soon. Thanks Adam. Appreciate it. Bye. Speaker 4 01:05:49 Thanks again for tuning in, and I hope you enjoyed the show. If you're listening to the podcast version of this episode, please subscribe on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts, please rate and review. As this will allow us to grow our audience and create more shows like this one. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to be the first to know about any new episodes that we release until the next episode. Goodbye.

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