Speaker 1 00:00:09 Are you ready to get serious about building content sites and building a profitable business online? Welcome to the niche website builders podcast. We bring you the latest field, tested tips, tricks and strategies for building a profitable online asset. We interview industry experts, share customer success stories and reveal our own experiences. Working on hundreds of sites to inspire and motivate you to make something happen. Let's do this.
Speaker 0 00:00:35 <inaudible> welcome to the niche website builders show. Today. I speak with Ron Stefanski who blocks
[email protected] Now Ron's been building sites for, for many years now and in the show he shares some of the insights in how he goes about building a successful content site. We also talk about, um, how it goes about selecting niches and ascertaining. Whether they're going to be profitable before embarking on a new site. We also talk about how he structured his sites and the link building strategies. He favors. Ron also share some really interesting tips on how he uses Facebook groups to grow the revenue of his content sites, but most painful of all, we talk about how he lost $233,000 on the side of his biggest site just a few weeks ago. I hope you enjoyed the show.
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Speaker 0 00:02:33 Welcome to the niche website builders show. Today I have Ron Stefanski on the show. Ron is a veteran builder of content sites and blogs over at one. Our professor.com. Ronnie is super transparent with these strategies on his blog and shared his income reports having following Ron for, for a while now. And, um, so it's pretty good to have you on the chat room. Yeah, Mark. No, I'm, I'm absolutely thrilled to be here. Uh, before we start, I was just telling you this before I got to tell people the, cause I know
Speaker 2 00:03:00 People are like, what is going on? So I had issues this morning tech issues, and I have, uh, I relocated in my wife's office who she is also utuber so that's, what's going on with the background. That's why you're seeing this little I'm on some other things. So I had to say it, but yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 0 00:03:16 That's your story. Right. And you're sticking to it. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So, um, yeah, I mean like, uh, yeah, say it was great to have you on the show, like, uh, I've been following your blog for, for a while now and you're known online as the one, our professor. Um, but yeah, I mean, it'd be great for you to kind of introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background before we kind of get into the, to the meat of the show.
Speaker 2 00:03:39 Yeah, for sure. Um, so for those that don't know me when our professor.com is my home base, if you will, but that's definitely not my only site. Um, I've been, so I had prior to getting into the world of online business, if you will, I was in sales for six years and then I did, uh, like digital marketing marketing at a corporate level for about seven years. Um, and in that time I also became, and this is one of the reasons why I have that domain name is I became an adjunct professor at a few different colleges, teaching, internet marketing. Um, and then, uh, yeah, right at this point it's been about about seven years ago or so. Um, I decided to really push hard on the idea of creating online businesses. Um, and essentially I started and had a whole bunch of failures. Uh, and then probably at about, about year six ish.
Speaker 2 00:04:31 Uh, well, I should say one year in, that's what I'm trying to say about one year in, I actually found some real success with one site. Uh, and then I started to build that out, build it out and it got pretty big. Uh, and then I was like, Oh, I should rinse and repeat. So then I did it with another site and another site and another site. Uh, so now I have a portfolio and I, and I know we'll get into this, but I've, I've sold a few off as of late. Uh, but now I have a portfolio believe it's six sites. It's either six or seven, I'd actually have to look. Uh, but for those wondering, how could you lose track of sites? It's it? Cause I, I, I'm a big proponent of outsourcing and I am actively myself working on like maybe two at a time, but I have a team that kind of handles it and some of them are just sitting and they've been sitting for months and just making passive income as well. So.
Speaker 0 00:05:18 Awesome. Awesome. So, I mean, so in terms of those sites, I mean, I guess it was a while ago now, right? There's a bunch of sites that you started like that didn't quite work. I mean, obviously there's probably some learnings there, but like, you know, what, can you look back and reflect on kind of why, why some of those initial ones didn't work?
Speaker 2 00:05:37 Yeah, I think, um, so I originally, like, I, I got the one site to work pretty well. Right. Um, and it was working pretty well and I was just like, well, this is easy. I can go and do this a million different times. Right. Uh, and then I, I use some of the revenue from that particular site, uh, to kind of bankroll other sites. So the truth is with a website it's really easy to start. Uh, and, and all these, I mean, I probably have like two sites that make under $25 a month, but the other sites make a couple thousand dollars a month each. Right. They're not like complete failures, but they're also not runaway successes. Um, and looking back, I think that one of the reasons for that really is because, uh, I honestly didn't stick with them for various reasons. Um, like one is, uh, really focused on and the whole model was really focused on, uh, Amazon affiliate was like the big thing.
Speaker 2 00:06:33 Uh, and while that still is working for sure, uh, with a lot of people, I'm one of those people that I'm hesitant anymore to really, uh, you know, marry into something with Amazon, just because I don't trust them, uh, based on what they've done, their commissions over time. So to me, that site, uh, has done really well and it grew to a certain point. And then I saw what Amazon was doing with commissions. And it was like, you know what, I don't know if I should really keep spending my time here because I could try to build this up, build this up, build this up. And then one day they may come down with the hammer, right? So like that was one that I kind of abandoned, but that still makes it, I think last month. Cause I, I don't know if, I don't think you said this yet, but I share my income reports every month online on, on one of our professor on how I'm getting revenue and everything last month, I think that one made like $1,700.
Speaker 2 00:07:16 Right. Which is, you know, that's something, um, but most of it isn't from Amazon. It's mostly from display ads. So that particular site, I kind of abandoned for that reason. Then I had another one that was in like fashion. That was my wife and I had obviously created and she kind of bowed out and I was like, well, I'm not all that interested in this topic. So I kind of buy that about out at the same time. So there's been, uh, it's every site, I don't have like a, a blanket statement. Every site, there's a specific reason that I kind of moved on. Um, and I've also over time realized that it is definitely better because, you know, at one point I was managing like six or seven sites actively I've realized if you really want to have any success, you've got to narrow it down and not work on too many at a time. So now the max I'll really work on it actively at a time is too. So,
Speaker 0 00:08:04 Yeah, I totally agree. I think, I mean over time I've seen, I guess the most common, common failures I see is people just giving up too soon or just not spending enough time in it. Like if you, if you just push on, push on it and you're doing the right thing, you're probably going to get there. Eventually, it just might take longer than other time at the sides, but yeah.
Speaker 2 00:08:22 Yeah. And I mean, even with these, yeah. Even with these sites, I would say I'm guilty of that. Right. Like I definitely think I have two sites right now that have one's making around 1700, one makes just over, like it's like 2200 and to some people I know they're like, Oh my gosh, that's crazy. It's really just the tip of the iceberg with these two. Uh, but I just, for my own reasoning, I don't want to dive in further. Uh, I'd rather focus on like my own personal brand. I get more enjoyment out of that. So if I would've kept pushing on, I have no doubt that they probably could be a lot bigger than they are, but, you know, I just haven't done that.
Speaker 0 00:08:56 I, yeah, I agree. I think we've all got those, uh, those ones that we just started and never quite continue on with for whatever reason, but yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:09:04 As long as they're making passive income, it's okay. You know, cause that's like, all right, well, I guess I'll just sit here and collect a check, then I may end up selling those in the future too. Um, but you know, for now they're sitting.
Speaker 0 00:09:13 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Cool. Um, so are you still teaching, are you still a professor?
Speaker 2 00:09:21 Yes. Um, yeah, so I, so when I originally started, um, I was teaching at three different schools as an adjunct, uh, and had like, honestly I'd have like five or six courses a session, which was pretty significant. That's like every, like eight to 10 weeks, I'd have five to six courses. Um, two of the schools that I am still technically employed at have reduced their course load. So I barely ever teach at those anymore. I mean, once in a great while I'll pick up a course. Uh, but there's one school that I'm a part of that I teach usually two courses a session. So it's two courses every eight to 10 weeks. And honestly, it's been, it's been hard to leave that because I'd been at it for such a long time and every course I've, I've taught, right. There's a process to it and assist them to it.
Speaker 2 00:10:09 And I built out like everything I've had to build out to where it really just doesn't take that much time. So it's always been a nice thing to fall back on, like, Hey, just in case my whole business disappears overnight, at least I've still got this. And then, you know, it's decent money for the amount of work. So I don't know, one day, I don't know what that number is one day, hopefully I'll trust myself enough to lead, but yes, I am still as a teacher and I don't mind teaching. I really don't. Um, I actually like teaching people how to create online businesses, but I also enjoy just teaching students. I think it's just good to be connected in that too. So
Speaker 0 00:10:41 For sure. I mean, I'll show you if you hate it, hate it, that much you would you'd leave sooner right here.
Speaker 2 00:10:46 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. For sure.
Speaker 0 00:10:50 Cool. So, um, yeah. So your, your blogs at the moment, you said you're kind of moving away from Amazon a bit. How are they primarily monetized your, your portfolio?
Speaker 2 00:10:59 So I am a little bit unique from most people because I know a lot of people do like Amazon affiliates and various fields. I actually really found success with display ads, um, and making revenue that way. Uh, I originally was pretty much all Google sense. Um, and then I dunno if you ever saw this previously in my, my YouTube and everything, but I had issues with Google ads and saying that I had invalid clicks, uh, which is still frankly, a mystery. Uh, the whole thing is kind of weird and I don't even, I dunno, it seems shady to me. So, uh, I was doing all that. Uh, and then I, because that happened, basically transitioned everything over to egoic, uh, because they have like protections in place and can actually have a team that you can talk to to help you with this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 00:11:48 Um, and they've done great. So they've been really good. So I, I pretty much have most of my, uh, like any of my display ads are there, but at this point I've been really in the world of mostly display ads, probably 90% display ads and like 10% affiliate. That's probably where I was coming from. Uh, now I'm starting to, uh, cause display ads are good, but in terms of a monetization form, it's pretty low, frankly, like it's, it's like the lowest hanging fruit. I mean, you can make decent money at it. I was able to do it. Uh, but what I've kind of gotten more into now is focused on actual affiliate marketing, uh, not so much Amazon, but other companies out there like software products, just, just products in general, right? Like all different types of, um, software and services and things like that.
Speaker 2 00:12:34 And then also what I've been diving further into, or I w what I will be diving further into is info products. So creating my own courses, um, I have a million different things in my head. I just have to like, spit it all out. Right? Like it's, it's kind of, it's kinda tough. Cause creating courses, isn't all that easy. It takes quite a bit of time. So I'll be diving further into that, but it's mostly, yeah, in the past it was mostly display in some affiliate. Now, personally, I'm shifting to much more affiliate myself and then I will be doing informational. And I see the nice thing is with the display ads, I'm still making that, that passive income from those. Right. Because the sites are just sitting there, but yeah, I'm definitely diving in more into affiliate. And I will say anybody that's like starting or like has some success with the website, definitely investigate how to incorporate more than one monetization strategy.
Speaker 2 00:13:23 Right. So even my one, our professor's site, I have display ads that will only show up on certain pages. Like only certain pages that have, they're not making much money at all in any way. Uh, they may make a little bit of affiliate, but I think, okay. I could probably make a little bit more if I throw on display ads, right. Like on some pages and then other pages, I have no display ads whatsoever. So I'm trying to kind of stack them and I'll be throwing on the monetization of informational products as well. So that's how you really make a lot of money with sites is when you're stacking different monetization models. So yeah,
Speaker 0 00:13:55 Yeah. Yeah. W what's what makes, what, what makes you decide not to put ads on specific some pages?
Speaker 2 00:14:02 Um, so usually it comes down to who are the affiliates on the page, right. And how much those affiliate, uh, engagements are worth. So for instance, one of the, uh, terms that I'm ranked near the top of Google, I'm not number one. I mean, depending on where you're at, but, um, I'm like top three for like best online course platforms or online course platforms. Uh, so those particular softwares, they will pay. If you sign someone up, it'll pay you 30% recurring commission. Right. So if I sign someone up today and they're paying 30, or they pay like a hundred bucks a month, I may make $30 a month for 10 months. Obviously that's very well paying. Right. Um, and that's like an extremely competitive keyword by the way. So, uh, but the point is, is that, that one, there's no point in putting display ads on there, right. Because if I do get a display ad whoopee, you know, like someone clicks and it's, you know, five, 10, maybe 15 cents versus, Hey, I signed them up once and then I can make a hundred or more off of each person. So it really depends on the page itself and who the affiliate is and what they're doing. Right. It just, it just all depends on that.
Speaker 0 00:15:10 Okay. Totally makes sense. Yeah. So, um, so at the moment, yeah, so you using, uh, Zohak for this, this one site, I mean, is it using Zurich across all of your sites in terms of ads or using other networks or,
Speaker 2 00:15:25 Uh, at this point it is all easily. Um, I am using all of them, the other ad networks there's, in my opinion, um, there is a false, uh, I guess you could say narrative out there that the, the idea is that you go from, uh, ad sense to egoic. What is it to media vine then to ad thrive? That's like, whatever one thinks that it's supposed to go. Um, and I have been working with, uh, personally with egoic. They had reached out to me and we're working together. We've been kind of collaborating on some things for a while now and understanding their technology and how it works and the artificial intelligence and the way that they optimize. Um, I actually don't think that it would be in my best interest to move away from them. Um, because I know that with time they get better and many of the other networks they're good and they use a part of artificial intelligence, but there's a lot more, um, human, uh, interjection, if you will, into the whole process.
Speaker 2 00:16:26 Um, and basically on my own belief and what I've seen with my own sites and how they've increased, I just don't know that it would be worth switching because they may be able to make me just a teeny bit more or domain may make me less, which is never good, but they may be able to make me a teeny bit more maybe. Uh, and if they do that though, they may just inundate my entire site with ads. So I like egoic because they have the artificial component to it, but they also allow you to customize it a lot more than I think most people realize, like, because you do DNS integration, I can technically run 50% of my site towards a version with Google AdSense, 50% with aversion, towards egoic. You know, there's different things that you can do there that I personally, like, you can also limit the amount of ads. So, you know, I'm not trying to like just how easily I care, but I personally very much believe in what they're doing, especially after understanding it better. So that's why I've stuck with them.
Speaker 0 00:17:19 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And standing out there. Yeah. They're doing great things over there, I think. Yeah. Yeah. They're definitely, um, yeah. Moving that kind of, that business in the, in the right direction. I think it's a bit stale and a bit old and
Speaker 2 00:17:31 Yeah, yeah. They're, they're kind of showing, like I said, that's the whole, the whole, you know, go from here. This is, they were like step two in the process. And now they're trying to help people realize, Hey, we're not step two. We can keep going with you. And now that I understand it better, I very fully believe in that. So, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:17:47 Yeah. Cool. Um, yeah. So I guess kind of going onto your story, like you've, you recently sold your, your biggest site, um, which I know has got kind of a crazy story attached to it. So, um, yeah, I'd love, I'd love you to be able to share that. And, um, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:18:02 This is a cautionary tale to everybody out there. So, uh, so I recently published a guest post to a YouTube video about this, but I'll sum up, sum it up. I'll try to give a summarized version. So basically, um, I had my site, uh, it was, I put it up for auction and everything. Wasn't really sure what I was going to get for it. I ended up getting someone, an all cash offer. They said, Hey, I'll buy it for 500,000. And I was actually, they said, like, remember what? They said, like four 93. And I was like, it's gotta be 500 just to say half a million. Right. Like, how cool is that? But I was like, ah, and that really is the reason it's kind of funny with that really is. I was like, it's gotta be this, it's gotta be this. So they eventually said, okay, we'll do that.
Speaker 2 00:18:41 Uh, they agreed on it. All cash offer all was good. I was going through the whole process. Uh, like we had a handshake agreement, went through the process of starting to transition things over. So obviously, you know, Mark, you know this, but when you're selling a site, you have to transition over all the partnerships. So for instance, it was monetized with diesel truck. Well, I got to talk to Esau can transition that over. And, you know, I have to talk to my various affiliate programs and say, Hey, this is, this is a new owner. I'm selling the site, yada, yada. So everything was going fine. Uh, you know, and literally like at the 11th hour, uh, one of the partners who accounted for like 50 to 60% of the revenue, um, I went out to them and, you know, I had already told them before, like, Hey, we're going to transition over.
Speaker 2 00:19:21 And they said, okay, no problem. We'll, we'll give them the same deal, yada, yada. So I was transitioning over and in that process and I'll I'll, I never will understand exactly why. I know it was an internal decision. I don't know exactly why. Um, but they basically decided, you know, what, uh, the contract that we have with you is non void. And we are not just going to not transition over the partnership, but we are closing out your access to our API. So they, they provided me with an API, which provided me with some data, which I would use to aggregate things on my site. And they basically said that. So within, I would say within about a couple hours, I went from a $500,000 sale, right. To, Oh my God, my site doesn't even work anymore because I don't have their API data. And by the way, I no longer have this ability to monetize this way because I was making some money with them, two things I was doing.
Speaker 2 00:20:14 So that was a very terrible time in my life. Uh, that was a really rough, that was a really rough, uh, you know, I think it was about 48 hours because my thing at that point was okay, you know, Oh, you know, this is no good. I'm no longer making money with them. But forget about that for a minute. Let's talk about the fact that my site wasn't working correctly anymore. And if I didn't get this fixed and Google saw it before I got it fixed, I could lose all my rankings. And then my whole site tanks, the whole deal falls through. And then I just have a site that's worth nothing. So it was absolutely awful to have to deal with that. But, um, what ended up happening was we went through the whole process. I found another partner, right. Who wasn't as lucrative.
Speaker 2 00:20:55 And, you know, um, I already knew they weren't as lucrative because I tested them before. Uh, but it was still lucrative. And we were able to, uh, I literally hired two teams on two different staging environments to try to get that up as quick as possible. I got that patch in there. We fixed the site. Um, and essentially, you know, talking to the, the original buyer, I was like, I'm going to back out of the sale because obviously who would still want the site after what just happened? And he actually stopped me and I'm very thankful for that. And he said, no, no, no, I'm still interested. Um, you know, but we have to adjust the valuation. So basically I was able to sell the site for two 77 is what I walked out of the deal with. So yeah, I lost, um, you know, quite $236,000 doing absolutely nothing and just kind of sitting there and just kind of being a victim in the whole thing. Uh, but you know, that's, that's part of the business. It was a, a rough thing, but people are like, you know, how do you handle? It's like, well, I mean, what am I going to do dwell on it. There's, there's really no point in being upset about it anymore. And really now I'm kinda like, you know, I did this once and I'm pretty confident in my abilities that I could do something bigger, even again. So it is what it is, but, uh, yeah, it hurt it definitely. Wasn't a good thing. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:22:07 Yeah. So, wow. Yeah. I can imagine how stressful that was. Yeah. Like I said, it, wasn't just,
Speaker 2 00:22:12 You know, you, you get, you get, Hey, you just lost over $200,000 in your head and then you get, Oh, wait, there's no time to worry about that because your site is not functioning. So that was my biggest worry. You know, it wasn't just that they pulled out of the deal. It wasn't, they cut off all the data. And that was kind of crazy and like really looking back, the only thing I think I should have done different because what happened was pretty much unavoidable. It was an internal decision. I couldn't have possibly change it. Um, I think what I should have done is when I originally signed up to work with them in a partnership agreement, I should have said, okay, if you're going to, if you're going to pause your data feed, you need to give me like 72 hours notice or, you know, something like that.
Speaker 2 00:22:50 That's like my one learning that I could have done. Um, and, and someone brought up a really good point. This was a really interesting thing. It was a comment on my YouTube. Cause I created that video. They said, you know, what you should have done is you should have in the beginning, which does make sense if I would've formed an LLC. Okay. If I would've formed an LLC in the beginning, signed everything up as an LLC in the beginning, I could have technically just given them that access to the LLC and I never would have had to transition over any partnerships, which is a pretty interesting idea. The problem with it was even if I, you know, later would have created an LLC, it would have been like, okay, now I've got to transition to the LLC. And then they would have said, you know, maybe, Hey, we're going to stop this partnership right then and there. Right. So like it never would have even gotten to where it dead. So, but that was an interesting strategy. I was like, man, that's true. I could have just given someone an LLC and they would have had access to the whole site. And, but you know, too little too late, it doesn't matter. So
Speaker 0 00:23:43 Yeah. I mean, it was not to them just to cut it off, straight away for sure.
Speaker 2 00:23:47 Yeah. Yeah. It was a, and then the crazy thing was like that we, this partner that I worked with, we worked together for, I think it was like, I don't remember how many years. Exactly. I think it was like three years or like three and a half years. Something like that. It was a while. It wasn't like, it was just overnight. And the worry that they had, I still don't think was warranted. Um, cause what happened was so their data was presented on the site and then some of the way that the data was presented, it wasn't by any means shady, but it was like, okay, is this a hundred percent truth? So it's, I can't disclose, you know, what the niches, because of the new buyer and everything, but, um, it's hard to explain it, but basically there was this little sliver of like, okay, there's a little bit of uncertainty around some of the data that was, that's kind of the farthest. I can go with it. So their worry was, well, if this happens, then this could happen. This could happen. You know, they were thinking like worst case scenario. But the thing was, we worked together for so many years and nothing bad ever happened. Right. Like it was always positive, always good. They were making money. I was making money. The people who received the data were happy because they were getting the information. So, you know, executive decision on their end. And, um, I was a victim kind of that. So yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:24:59 It was a special deal that you negotiated for the API. It's not, it wasn't a public API as a such Yukon. It was
Speaker 2 00:25:05 So technically other people could use the API, but because I worked with them, we did negotiate in the beginning, Hey, this is kind of how we're going to structure it. So it was a little bit custom. Um, and yeah, I mean the, the API, they, so they actually reached out to me. Right. So that was the whole thing. Um, I think they look for particular sites that match their criteria or whatever, and then they'll reach out to them directly. It wasn't something to where I reached out to them and, you know, originally, so they ended up reaching out to me and thank God they did, you know, I made a lot of money with them and I'm happy with it. Um, I may create another site in a similar space to where I may even use them again, but I can't say that what they did didn't stain. Um, yeah, it just is what it is. So yeah.
Speaker 0 00:25:50 Wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. What a story of is
Speaker 2 00:25:52 Yeah, it was a, it was awful. So yeah, cautionary tale to anyone out there. And I actually, it's funny because after I posted the video, um, I had, I'd say probably about five people who had a very similar thing done to them. They had a very, they were, I went to go sell the site and a partner, you know, they took away X amount of dollars from the whole, the whole thing just because they didn't want to continue to partnership. So I wish that wouldn't happen. And, and, and it, it doesn't always make sense to me because usually if you're in a partnership and it makes a lot of money, it's not just making money for you, it's making a lot of money for them too. So it's kind of weird to me how these companies back out of these things, but that's what they do sometimes. And you know, it's not under your control. So,
Speaker 0 00:26:34 So have you, have you managed to move on and enjoy the fact that you had $277,000 in your bank account? Or
Speaker 2 00:26:39 So? Yeah, so, so, so we've had tat we've had come into that. So, uh, you know, the, the government's like, Hey, give me my car. Cause you know, they did so much. Uh, so basically walking away money was about 200,000. Uh, and actually oddly enough, my wife and I, I've been contemplating a move to Arizona. I'm in Illinois, currently Chicago area, and we've been contemplating a move to a warmer climate. So we are going to do Arizona. Now, we're actually going in, um, the date today's Friday, actually, I'm going tomorrow to Las Vegas, Nevada to see if I have any interest in moving to Nevada. I'm not sure that I do or not. Uh, but yes, we'll be moving to a warmer climate with it. And I can't complain about that. So it's still a heck of a lot of money. Like if you talk to me, you won't hear me complaining about it, but if I were to say that, you know, losing that amount of money, it didn't sting. I'd definitely be aligned.
Speaker 0 00:27:28 So yeah. Yeah, I show. Okay, cool. And these, you mentioned just at the start there, you, you, you sold another couple of your sites recently as well, is that right?
Speaker 2 00:27:37 Yeah. So I've sold, uh, out of my portfolio. I think it was at one point, I think it was at 10 or so. No, it would have been a nine. Um, I sold my biggest site and then, uh, what was it? I think it was in, was it 20, 20 or 2019 now in 2019 I had also sold a site. It was a much smaller site. I think I sold it for like, it was like 18,000 or something like that. Um, and that was just a site that, Hey, it needs some work and I'm not doing anything. So I'm just going to get rid of this one. Uh, so I had sold that one and I'm trying to, like I said, I may end up selling a few more of my sites just because I'm trying to kind of consolidate down, uh, because I, you know, like I said before, I subscribed to the theory of like, I can make, um, all these different sites and hire all these people to manage all these sites. And I've realized that I'm pretty good at managing the sites myself. Uh, and I kind of need to really focus on them. So I am consolidating down, uh, over time. And, uh, right now, since we're buying a house, there will be no selling of any sites. Uh, cause you know, I need the income to keep coming and the revenue so that people see, but after we buy that house and her settled in, there's a real possibility that it may sell a cider to another one.
Speaker 0 00:28:45 So, or another one I do. Yeah. Cool. See, you tried a few different business models over time and I guess some other income you get through YouTube, but you've tried a few other things over the years. Is that right?
Speaker 2 00:28:56 Yeah. I've uh, so I have shiny object syndrome. It's definitely more under control than it used to be. Um, but I've definitely tried quite a bit of different things. So, uh, I originally tried to complete, so the original, when I created one, our professor, which was like right around when I started, right. Uh, when I created that brand, my original thing was I had discovered Pat Flynn smart, passive income. And I was like, I'm going to beat that little guy. I'm going to, I'm going to create these courses. I'm going to make all this money and you don't know what you don't know. So I was like, well, that's stupid. You know, looking back, I laugh. Like he's very good at what he does. Um, and basically I started out and I was like, I'm going to do that. And I'm going to sell courses.
Speaker 2 00:29:35 Right. That was my whole thing. One hour professor, one hour long courses that teach people things, well, guess what? It's not that easy, especially if nobody knows who you are. Right. So when I had started out, I actually did that, that didn't work out for me. Uh, and I tried a bunch of other different site ideas that were frankly pretty stupid. Uh, and then, uh, I basically had kind of dove into the world of, uh, display advertising and found some success there with my first big site. Um, I also had created sites, mostly display ad focused, uh, Amazon affiliate kind of like a hybrid, but still mostly making most in display. Uh, I did a little bit of Amazon FBA, uh, as well. It was just a calendar that I had created, but I had success with it. It made me like $2,000 a year.
Speaker 2 00:30:19 Um, and it didn't take that much work. So I did that. And then, um, yeah, I got more into, uh, affiliate. Uh I've do, I've done a YouTube, obviously I've been doing YouTube myself, uh, for some time we also, my wife and I co own, um, some channels where it's, it's kind of like an interesting business model, not a people that, not a lot of people talk about where instead of sitting in front of a camera like this talking, right, these YouTube channels are like almost like narrative in a way. And you, you know, people have probably seen them to where it's like the 10 coolest houses in Britain, you know, or something like that. Uh, and then it's just a voiceover and they're kind of showing, so we've been doing stuff like that as an example. So we do have a few channels that are like that, which has been an interesting business model. Uh, and then, yeah, now I've, I've mostly personally focused on affiliate, higher level affiliate things that I didn't do in the past. And then I'm going to be focusing more on info products. Uh, but yeah, the only thing I really haven't dove in, I think is probably like podcasting. That's probably like the one thing. And that's just, cause, I mean, there's just more effort there that I didn't want to put forth as brand. So I guess chalk that one up police in us. So
Speaker 0 00:31:27 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you tried a few things, but yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you've got some, some good plans and direction kind of going forward for what you want to do with the brand and yeah,
Speaker 2 00:31:37 Yeah. I'll say so anybody that's like in this, if they're getting to that point to where they're getting scatterbrain, they're doing all these different things, take a deep breath and try to narrow your focus. That would be my advice because I was one of those that was kind of like doing everything. And, um, I also have like, like social media groups, like Facebook groups and all this stuff. Um, you know, I was doing a lot of different things and I've realized in order to really do well, you kind of got to focus your energy. Right. So I have been consolidating that down, but, um, it's, it's good though, because I feel like, you know, a lot of people will write about or talk about certain things and they don't really have much experience. I do have a lot of experience in a lot of different things because I'm just curious by nature and it's hard, you know? Cause I, you know, you see this thing over here and like here's an interesting business model. Let me try that. So I've, I've been blessed in the sense that I've been able to take those risks. And my portfolio of sites has been able to kind of carry me as with passive income to be able to do those things, which is cool.
Speaker 0 00:32:32 Yeah. Yeah. You can do them all, but just don't do them in parallel. Do this sequentially. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:32:37 Yeah. And try to focus. Well, my biggest thing now, cause it's funny, cause I've talked to some people and that I don't really know what to do and I've had a little success here and I've had a little bit more success here and then this and I'm like, okay, where have you had the most success? And they're like, Oh, in this thing, I'm like, do that thing. Like just keep doing that thing, go as hard as you can on that. You'll probably grow really well. And then once you get to a point, you can maybe then look into the other things almost as like a hobby kind of like testing things out. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:33:01 Yeah, yeah. I totally, I entirely agree. Um, okay. So, um, yeah. Would you, in terms of like the way that you think about your portfolio of sites, like would you say that you're kind of someone who, it sounds like you are, there's someone who's, who will work on a site for a long period of time before considering? So I think it's not like that's not the immediate thing or are you more of a kind of flipper type or by a psych right. For a few months and flip it for, for a profit like kind of think about things.
Speaker 2 00:33:30 So this is again my shiny object syndrome thing kicking in and I'll explain that in a second. I've pretty much been, um, so when I have come up with a site idea, it has pretty much always been okay. I have a site idea, I'm going to go buy the domain. I'm going to, I'm going to put the theme on it. I'm going to create this thing from scratch and I'm going to do everything a hundred percent from scratch and then I'm going to build it up, build it up, build it up. And then in the past it was build it up, build it up, build it up and then just let it sit and then hire a team to keep putting content in. Uh, and then it just grows over time. And there's a site right now that I'm doing that with really well last month, I think it hit over like $3,200 in earnings.
Speaker 2 00:34:08 Uh, and I honestly, and I mean, as Mark, I probably put in between everybody that's working with it. I probably put in, I'd say maybe like an hour or two a month. I mean, I really barely even touched a site, but it's growing. Right. And it keeps going because I put a team in place. So, um, that's that site and that site is doing really well. That's like what I've done in the past primarily was that, um, now I'm getting a little bit more comfortable with, Hey, it's not that terrible of an idea to sell a site, especially if you've owned it for like in the U S anyway, more than two years, because then as long-term capital gains is how it's taxed. So you pay less taxes on it. And you know, that, like my thing now is whenever I'm looking at a site is okay, is it going to make this same amount for whatever the, uh, monthly revenue, uh, multiplier is?
Speaker 2 00:34:55 So like, okay, if it's going to sell for 30 X, is it going to make the same amount of money for 30 more months? That's essentially, and then you've got to take away taxes like 25 bucks, whatever. And frankly, if it's a site that's just sitting there, usually the answer to that is no, like it's not going to keep making that. And I'm, I'm aware of that. So then I think, okay, she'll probably sell this thing because you know, it's just going to start slowly dying over time. Cause if you're not paying attention to a site, that's what it's going to do. And if you don't have a team assigned to it, that's what it's going to do. So I will sell that way. But mostly I had been kind of let's build, build, build, and either let it sit or if a site is right, like the one I'm working on now, I'd happily assign a team to it, to keep building it and keep making it better.
Speaker 2 00:35:34 Um, for the most part. But I am about one experiment that I thought about I haven't done it yet is flipping to a hundred thousand. So it's literally going to be the idea of, let me go onto like Flippa or one of these places where I can get a cheap, uh, site. That's actually a pretty decent deal and has something going on, uh, and is making, you know, like whatever to 500 bucks a month, take it, increase the earnings, flip it, go buy another one, flip it, and then probably, you know, try to get to a hundred thousand dollars flip and then say guys, that's how you could do it. So it's an interesting experiment that I want to do. Uh, I, I haven't done it yet, but it's definitely an experiment that I thought about doing for sure.
Speaker 0 00:36:13 Okay. That sounds fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just keep say, well, you're talking about this. Just keep, do you start? Yeah. Start with a budget of like, I don't know, $500 or whatever, and you keep flipping it until
Speaker 2 00:36:25 It would be, yeah. I'd buy a site for probably like under 5,000 or something like that, you know, and then take it and grow it, grow, grow it, and then flip it and then grab another one and then flip it. So I think it'd be, cause everyone always does that with like, I've seen that with like, people do it with like Craigslist, right? Like they'll start with like a paperclip and then they have a house by the end of it. Right. So I just think that'd be a really interesting case study. Uh, it also be kind of a tough, because there's, there's always some variables that you don't know about sites. Right. Um, so I think it would be definitely challenging. I'm not doing it yet, but in the future, I would, at some point like to do it, I just think it'd be really cool to be able to.
Speaker 0 00:37:01 So yeah, definitely. I mean, it feels to me cause I'm over the year, not so much these days, but um, I've always been into like poker people do about like, you know, they do the, they start at the lowest stakes, you know, with like 50, $50 or whatever, and then turn it into like $10,000 or whatever over a period of time. And they just keep going up the stakes as they kind of build their bank road. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like similar to that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:37:23 Well I'm actually a big poker player too. I'm a big hold Hold'em uh, I don't, I don't do Omaha so much, but uh, Texas hold 'em, I'm a big fan of, and I've played countless, countless hours of poker. So
Speaker 0 00:37:34 Yeah, me too. Me too. I was, uh, yeah, I'd like to get back to actually I was into it a lot, like many years ago I read a crazy number of books on strategy and stuff.
Speaker 2 00:37:43 Yeah. Did you ever do any, did you ever do the online stuff at all or was it mostly like, like local or
Speaker 0 00:37:49 I I've done online. Um, I prefer live. I'm just, I don't, it just seems to be a better player live as well. I think it's just like more, more patience when I'm playing live. And so I played it to my reasonably high, big, big entry. Tournament's like we cost, cost quite a bit of money to, to enter the higher stakes and yeah. Yeah. But like, um, yeah, online, online is good. Uh, but cause, cause cause the convenience by I prefer playing live.
Speaker 2 00:38:13 Yeah. Actually. So I have a friend who does that, uh, still full time. That's his job. Uh, I've tried multiple times to really get into it. And I, I make the dumb moves. I go on tilt a little bit. Uh, I make some dumb moves and I usually, especially online the beats that you get online, I've never seen anything like it personally. So like, I feel like in person is better because you are more patient, but like, I don't know if you're talking about hold them specifically, but that can be pretty boring. I mean, you're sending for, you know, you may not do anything for an hour and a half and then you make one move and then you can make a lot. So yeah. I, um, now I just pretty much don't even play because number one, we can't even do online gambling in the U S they have pretty much outlawed it. Uh, and then, you know, live, I'm not going to go sit at a casino for eight or nine hours, you know, like that's just not something I'm willing to do. So I've had more success with this. So now I'm going to gamble here instead.
Speaker 0 00:39:06 Yeah. Online is difficult as well because there's the solvers now in poker where people can sit in front of computer and pickers, especially hold them. It's like a solved game. And so people would just sit there with a wit, with a poker window open and just solving it in the you
Speaker 2 00:39:20 Yeah, that's, that's, that's how my friend, my one friend is like a savant when it comes to mathematics. So yeah, that, and also Omaha has a lot more variables, but it's kind of a similar thing to where he could just sit there and say, Oh, my odds of winning are X. You know, he just knows that. And I definitely don't, I'm not that good.
Speaker 0 00:39:35 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Um, so when it comes to you, you mentioned like, uh, you know, when you're starting a new site, you come up with an idea, like take a, see your thought processes for like how, how do you, how do you come about coming up with a new idea and, and picking a niche?
Speaker 2 00:39:52 Yeah. So, um, it really depends on, um, like my motivation, I guess, at the time. So really what it comes down to is if I'm looking okay. So if I'm looking to create a new site, I will first look at, um, like the topic. I try not to go too broad with my topics. I go broad, but not super, super broad. Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't create a site about animals. Right. I would create a site about a specific breed of animals. Okay. So I do niche down a little bit. I don't niche down, you know, cause I know like some people will create a website on the best vacuum, cleaner 20, 21, right. Like some people will do that. I'd never go that far down, but I do a niche down a little bit. And when I do it, when I'm looking at a site, I, you know, aside from doing keyword research to determine, uh, how viable it is, right.
Speaker 2 00:40:48 To see just how much volume there is and, and trying to think of, uh, kind of like the silos of the site. So not just, okay, this is going to be the main keyword, right? Like, like this is the main keyword that I want to do. Uh, and then what are some other, uh, topics that are closely related to that, uh, is usually I'll do that kind of research to find out kind of keyword volumes. And I'll just add up all the volume to see how much it could potentially get to monthly. And then I usually add even more cause those tools aren't always perfect. Uh, so I'll do that. But the other big thing that I think a lot of people don't think of it from the beginning and it's not like I'm, I'm guaranteeing anything, but I always look at also the monetization strategies.
Speaker 2 00:41:26 So I always say, okay, it has to have at least three legitimate monetization strategies that I can eventually, uh, put forth to make more money with it. Um, because a lot of people are like, okay, I'm going to create a site. I'm going to put Amazon affiliates on it. Okay, great. What else can you do? Because Amazon, you know, right now it's okay. It's definitely not as good as it once was and what if Amazon completely goes away? Right. Like that's a very possible thing, at least in the U S and everything with the way that it's been kind of flowing over the years. Uh, nobody knows except for Jeff Bezos, but, um, yeah, that's like the way that I look at it. So I look at that and then I think, okay, how else can I monetize monetize this? And then obviously I look at the competitive landscape.
Speaker 2 00:42:06 Uh, so it's really just the keyword research to determine volume and then how can we monetize it? And then the competitive landscape, and I've got to look and basically see and say, okay, um, you know, there's a hole in this particular nature area based on what I'm seeing compared to all other people. Uh, I will tell you if you're, if you're creating a site, if you can find a site that has, you know, on a specific topic or focused on a specific community of people that doesn't have a lot of competitors, like under five or 10, and that does exist out there, those are where you can really make a killing, um, because you could just walk in and with a little bit of link building and decent content and you can pretty much monopolized kind of most of the, uh, the search traffic with that. So,
Speaker 0 00:42:51 Yeah. So, okay. That makes sense. So when you, when you first start out kind of with that kind of idea and the keyword research kind of process you go through, I mean, do you kind of find yourself going down a rabbit hole to, to, to find a niche or are you
Speaker 2 00:43:07 Yeah, so, um, it depends, uh, you know, I, I do go down a little bit of a rabbit hole, so I usually, it's so hard to explain the way that I think about it. So I usually will think of like a broad concept. I'm like, okay, we'll just say dogs, right. I'm just going to say dog. So if someone's like, I'm going to make a website about dogs. Well, then I'm going to say, okay, well now you're gonna make a website about dogs. Let's look at the competitive landscape. Okay. Most of the domain authorities of dog websites are in the seventies, 80, maybe they're super high. Um, yeah, you can, you know, create a dog website and, and start focusing on low competition, low surfing keywords, and start to make a name for yourself, but that's going to take you years and years and years.
Speaker 2 00:43:51 And you're really going to do a lot of link-building to really grow because you're in such competitive area. But instead of that, let's focus on a, a dog website that's on like a particular breed that has a lot of search volume. So for example, you can focus on, um, golden retriever dogs, right? Let's create a website and golden retriever dogs that is going to be a lot less competitive. And it's still, I mean, I don't know what the search by my offhand is, but if that site has the, uh, volume of, you know, that could potentially get 150 200,000 searches a month, that's very, very much worth it. Right. So I like to, to go down, I have found as I've more experienced that I've been willing to scale up and take those biggest, those bigger risks. Right. Um, like I have one site with my wife, that's focused on fashion.
Speaker 2 00:44:40 I mean, it's about fashion, that's the site, right? Um, specifically women's fashion, uh, and obviously not my, my number one topic, uh, something that I really am passionate about, but I was like, Hey, it looks, it looks interesting. My wife really likes that stuff. Uh, and we went into it and we started to build, build, build, and we got links and this, that, and the other. And we made, you know, we make some money, but that makes like maybe between a hundred to 250 bucks a month because it's so competitive. And it's such a difficult thing because we'd had to do a lot of link building to get to it. So, um, for me, when I'm looking at them, I'll try to niche down a little bit. And as long as it's viable and can be big enough, I'm willing to go into it. Uh, but I have, I've just found that if you're going to go really broad, like if you're going to go broad and say, okay, I'm gonna make a website about a pets, all kinds of pets, or I'm gonna make a website about, um, houses or how like house decor or that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 00:45:31 You're going to have to go all in four years to really make that into a big thing. Uh, and the level of commitment that I like is, Hey, let me try to find this niche. That's a little bit smaller. Can still be pretty lucrative and has very little competition. Let me focus there because it's much, it's just so much easier. Like it's so much, it's infinitely easier to really carve out a name for yourself there and grow it to where, yeah, you may have a ceiling on the site of five or $10,000 a month, but if you do that three times, you're making really good money. And that's what I did previously. That's how I built my portfolio site outs. Right. Like I did that over and over and I made really good money from numerous different sites. And then it's nice too, because you're not just, if this one site goes down or gets hit by an algorithm, I'm not going to be broke overnight. Right. So you're diversified a little bit too. So that's kind of the way that I've done it, but I have tried to do a little bit more broad stuff, but I've just found that it's going to take some pretty intense, um, you know, concentration to really get to where you'd like.
Speaker 0 00:46:29 Yeah. Yeah. And I think if you, if you're planning on going broad, is it still better to start off narrow? So if you're doing a pets pet site, start off with the golden retriever dog or the bearded dragons or the, for some sort of fish or whatever, and just fill that out completely. So it's almost just all about fish and then, and then move on to the next silo. Next side, eventually it'd be broad, but B you just can't write one article on every pet category and then write another one article on every pet Cracker you would, you'd give up probably before you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:46:59 Yeah. And that, and that's it. That's the interesting thing. And then like, cause like my thing too is when I start a site, I usually I do what I call keyword dump, which is literally I just take, I do the keyword research and then I dumped like thousands of keywords into a spreadsheet. Um, just that I'm not creating similar topics and there's a whole thought process behind it. Uh, but I do that. Uh, and then I'm looking at it and I'll usually choose, okay, I'm going to do the lowest competition and frankly, pretty low volume keywords. And I'll up, you know, 50 or whatever, a hundred of those. And then you put them up and it's like, it's tough because only like a couple of them are going to really take hold in the beginning. So then you'd have to kind of adjust your silo and just focus on that particular topic.
Speaker 2 00:47:42 So I don't know, it gets a little tough. Um, but you know, there's definitely something to be said for focusing on those silos one at a time. Uh, but my biggest thing and where I, where I struggled with it in the past is okay, I've got to focus on the silo, but how do you discover what that silo is? Well, you have to write a lot of different content, a love it, a lot of different things to see what's really taking hold and then you start building on it in that silo. And then if that silo's not showing any gratification or not showing any positive reinforcement that it's like, well, maybe I chose the wrong silo. So that's been kind of one of the things that I've personally struggled with in going that route. Um, but frankly I think the bigger thing is I was doing, uh, I was creating sites on things that, like I said, it was about fashion.
Speaker 2 00:48:23 I'm not the most fashionable guy in the world. My wife literally tells me what to wear. It's just easier on me. So, uh, I just like here, I literally like if we're going out, I'm like, could you just go into my closet and pick stuff? Cause it's just easier than me trying to figure it out. Uh, so I'm not a fashion guy. So I would say, I know everyone's like, Oh, follow your passions. Like, and if you have a passionate that doesn't pay anything, that's not going to work. But if you have a site or you're creating a site at least have some interest or some sort of some passion into it to where you can, it can hold your interest for a long time. So,
Speaker 0 00:48:54 Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned kind of silos, like just then, so like how do you think about like your site structure when you're starting a new site? Is that what's the,
Speaker 2 00:49:02 So anytime I come out with any type of, um, idea or just site idea in general, I'm always looking at it at it from a silo perspective and thinking, okay, uh, just kind of high level where like, I'll go into a, a spreadsheet I spend, when I, before I create a site, I probably spend a good, like five to 10 hours inside of an Excel document or a Google sheet. Right. Uh, because I'm trying to really structure it and understand, okay, well, how can I organize this? And where does each of these falls? So like there's product recommendations here. And then there's informational resources. Like almost like databases of information that I can provide to people here, uh, like with the golden retriever thing. Right. It might be okay, we have, uh, product reviews here. Uh, and that's going to be one, one silo. Right.
Speaker 2 00:49:51 So we're going to have product reviews and then we may have, uh, veterinarians, like specialists with golden retrievers, obviously a generic example, but kind of the idea, okay, that's an informational hub that we can create there with, with the silo and then we can talk about their diet and then we can talk about their health. You know, like I always think in those terms and what I like to do, um, is I'm a big fan of like data. I just, data never lies. It doesn't lie. It doesn't matter who you are. It's always going to tell you the truth. So when you're looking at things, that's why I'm a big fan of exporting, just a pretty large amount of data. And then looking at that and categories categorizing off of that, because then I'm able to kind of say, okay, what I usually will create like a category inside of an Excel spreadsheet.
Speaker 2 00:50:33 So I'll have all the keyword data and then I'll have category and then I'm just assigning, okay. These keywords are about diet. These keywords are about this thing. So I like to look at it that way in a silo, um, like architecture way, uh, in the beginning. And then, yeah, I'll usually kind of just, like I said, I'll, I'll basically throw up, you know, 10, 20, 30 articles up from all over the place pretty much. And then I'll see what takes hold. And then I will start to focus on whatever was taking hold. That's usually how I do it. And then I'll build out that silo and then go to the next. But like I said, my problem in the past is I've been working on sites where I'm not passionate. I just don't care because that takes patience too. Because when you create a silo, it's almost like creating a new site. Like you'll get some traffic in the beginning with that silo, but you need to keep focused on that silo in order to really build it out. And if you're kind of like how I have been, cause I've created sites in the wrong areas to where you have no interest, then you create like five articles. Eh, maybe we should try this one because you want to try the other one and then maybe we should try this one and then nothing really big ever happens. So,
Speaker 0 00:51:33 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been there. I've been there myself. Yes.
Speaker 2 00:51:39 Only some patients needed. Um, for sure. And I, frankly, haven't done much of that in the past with, but I haven't chosen, I haven't done many really broad sites. I've done basically two really broad sites. Uh, one of them is on like a holding pattern and it's just sitting there it's the fashion one because I just don't care. And then I have another one that we're working on and we are doing exactly what I said with the silo stuff and it's, it's taking time, but it's starting to show some positive things.
Speaker 0 00:52:05 So yeah. Yeah. Awesome. And in terms of like social media channels, is that something that you look at when building outside cities, do you consider the social media is a good, yeah, so I, um,
Speaker 2 00:52:18 I pretty much hate social media to be honest with you. Uh, I, the only reason the only thing that I like is I really like Facebook groups, uh, because it allows you to create a community around the topic. Um, so oftentimes, and this is like a helpful hint. People are like, okay, well I get to create the site and I got to create an email list and I got to get people into the email list. How do I get them in one of the best things I've done is I will create a site. And at the same time I'll create a Facebook group with it. And what I do is I say, Hey, join our email list in order to join our Facebook group, our Facebook community, that actually has worked really well. Um, I like the Facebook groups because when I, when I create sites, the most success I've ever had is created sites with people who have a particular problem.
Speaker 2 00:53:03 Right. So, um, like as an example, and this isn't a site I do, uh, cause it's in the medical area. But like if you wanted to focus on, uh, like a site that was all about people who had breast cancer or something like that, you could create the site, have a bunch of information about that. And then also create a Facebook group for people who have breast cancer or survivors of breast cancer. Again, I don't this because it's medical and there's a lot of different things that make that more difficult now with Google. Uh, but generally speaking, I've had a lot of success with that because not only are you getting the information out there and getting your site, um, and, and you're drawing people into that, but you're also now creating a community of people who are all sharing in the same issues if you will.
Speaker 2 00:53:44 So they all have not the same, but similar problems. So a lot of times you can use those Facebook groups to also sell affiliate pro uh, like affiliate things, uh, or informational. If you go that route, I haven't personally done that. Uh, but also like, uh, yeah, like different products, informational thing like that. But also, uh, that was when I did FBA when I did Amazon FBA. That's how I was selling a lot of the product that I created was in the Facebook group. Right. So it's just getting those people of that same community, that same passion and then creating a site around it. And then a Facebook group has accomplished is nice because now you have a whole community of those people. Right. And they're all really passionate about it. So you just tie it all together. And that's like the only social media that I really do. Um, I've heard good things about Pinterest. I've never been able to really dive in and master that. So I'm not a big social media guy. I'm mostly an SEO guy. My best friend had been focused on that more.
Speaker 0 00:54:35 Yeah. That's really interesting. The way you said about using Facebook groups, like to, to, um, get people to your site and then you get them to join your mailing list to get to the Facebook group. So, you know, cause I've always done it the other way around. I tried to get people to join the Facebook group. And then one of the questions you asked when joining the Facebook group is what's your email address and try and get them interested.
Speaker 2 00:54:54 I've actually done it both ways. So I even have it to where, when they, when they join, like sometimes that, or I'll use, it really depends like chicken before the egg, right? Like it's kind of hard to choose which one. Um, so something interesting that happened to me was I had a site to where I ranked, um, for a very broad term in Facebook, if somebody typed in a specific breed of an animal, we'll leave it at that a specific breed. So not the Labrador retriever one, by the way, uh, the golden retriever I mentioned earlier, but kind of like that same idea. Right. And when they typed in the name of that animal, my site was number one, I, or my Facebook group rather was number one, I was getting like 50 to a hundred people a day signing up to that. It was crazy. So I ended up doing exactly what you're saying like, Hey, do you want to receive a free email from this here's so, you know, I would say really, if you can, if you can do both, um, that's kind of a good thing because it just compliments each other. And if you grow that community along with your site, it really can be very beneficial, uh, down the road. There's a lot of ways to monetize those sites. You can also interview people. There's a lot of things that you can do with that, that, that, uh, community.
Speaker 0 00:56:02 So yeah, no, I re I really liked that because, um, you know, cause the way that I've done it in the past, we, Facebook group is not, it's not necessarily successful. Like if you can do what you say and rank the Facebook group, that's good. But sometimes it's just Facebook groups just don't get found. And there, if, if you're, if you're doing it the other way round, like I'm really good at ranking sites for SEO like yourself, if you can get people coming to your site and then push them to them.
Speaker 2 00:56:26 Yeah. Yeah. That's worked really, really well for me. Yeah. I get, I have, I have too many Facebook groups with, I don't even over 5,000 people at this point. Um, and I will say it becomes, cause I know people are thinking, okay, well if you do that, that's great. But then you have to manage the Facebook group. Right. Well, what I will say is that Facebook has done a very good job and that they have a lot of different, um, Mon ways to kind of monitor your groups now. So you can, you can basically say, okay, if anyone says any swear word, I want that flag and I want to see it. So you can do that. Um, and then you'll also, you're gonna get people who spam, it's so annoying, but you're gonna get people who spam. Uh, so like a way to safeguard yourself against that is you always ask the questions you're familiar with that.
Speaker 2 00:57:08 Cause you just mentioned that you ask the questions in the beginning and if they're not answering anything decline, every time decline them. Uh, and then, um, so that works, but yeah, there's that. And then what I did with the one group that had grown really big, cause I was ranking organically on Facebook for a particular term is I ended up, um, they gave you the ability within Facebook, the group tools to see the most engaged people. Like the people that are most active in the group. I actually just reached out to like the top three most active. And then I said, Hey, would you be willing to help me, uh, monitor this? And I can't pay you, but you're obviously pretty passionate about it. Anyway, they've said yes. And then every year I gave them a gift card, you know, not a big deal. So I just give him a gift card every year around Christmas time saying, Hey, thanks really appreciate you. Best $50 I've ever spent on per person. You know, like it was like talking to people and then you're just, you're really not in it very often. Uh, and they monitor it and they care way more than you do. So. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 0 00:58:05 Yeah. I'm going to try that. I hadn't really thought about trying it that way around, but um, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:58:09 It works, especially if you're already getting traffic, use your, your Facebook group as an opt-in or as a bonus to any opt-in that you already have and then tell them they have to give their email in order to join it. It works very, very well. Uh, and you can, and I, I feel like, like in the beginning I wasn't ranking for that, but I feel like what happens is as Facebook sees, I don't know exactly how their algorithm for Facebook groups work, but I feel like just, you know, from what I've seen is that as you add more groups, they start to realize, okay, this person is driving in more members from outside into our platform, into, into the group. So they must be good. And then the other thing is I never ever leave my Facebook groups open either. So my Facebook groups are always that they have to request access every single time. I've never just had an open one that anyone can join any time because there's so many spammers. So I always, always do that. And yeah, it's worked for me. So
Speaker 0 00:59:01 Cool. Yeah. I kind of give it, yeah. I mean, yeah, I've had pretty good success with Pinterest, but that's the only one I use because it's more of a visual, it's a search engine as opposed to social media. It's transient, but groups are great if you can get them to work. So I've kind of given up on that rhubarb. I'm going to go for it again now with what you said. Yeah, sure. Cool. And, um, yeah. In terms of link building, do you, do you do actively dealing building or not?
Speaker 2 00:59:24 I'm totally, I'm totally in the, link-building all in on link building camp. Um, and the reason as you guys, so I know some people like you don't need to do link building and other people say you do need to do it so you can say whatever you want. Okay. Anybody can say whatever they want, they're entitled to their opinion, but here's the reality of me. I've had a portfolio of sites, uh, for some time. And I have found that every single site that I had done link building on in a way that's, uh, organic. So like I like to do like shotgun skyscraper, like stuff that, um, I'm not just going out and I'm not talking about, let's go out and buy a hundred links. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about earning links, going out, creating good content and earning links. When I have done that with a site, literally every single time, you can see that the graph goes up into the right very, very quickly, um, case in point.
Speaker 2 01:00:13 So if people were to look, if they go to H refs and look at the one hour professor website, you will see, I started really doing link building in the form of guest posting. I started really guest posting on high domain authority sites. Um, in about July of 2020 is when I really started that my site has literally skyrocketed, um, in terms of the traffic that I'm getting the domain authority, everything. And that's, I solely attribute that to the links that I built because you have to remember, my site has been around. I don't even know now how long it's been for like seven or eight years it's been around. And it really didn't do much for years and years and years. All of a sudden I started to do this and all of a sudden I started to rank for a lot of different things that I wanted to rank for in the past.
Speaker 2 01:00:58 So I'm a huge, huge advocate of building links. Um, I think that it depends on your niche too. So, uh, with one of our professors in online business, which extremely competitive, right? Like one of the most competitive areas, um, and now I'm comfortable enough in, in competing in this area. But, um, I have other sites that, you know, they're, you know, maybe five other sites out there that I can find focused on the niche, right. So it's really low hanging fruit. I'll do. Um, like for one of them, I created a guide. I did one skyscraper campaign. I got like 10 or 15 links and that's all it took. My domain authority is like, I don't even know 20 or 30 and eight traps. And I, uh, started to rank for a ton of stuff. And now I'm getting organic links and now I really don't have to do much. So it does definitely depend on your niche. Like you don't have to get, you know, hundreds of links in every niche. That's not what I'm saying, but there's definitely, depending on the niche, you, I'm a huge advocate of, uh, of link building. Every time I've done it. I've seen my traffic skyrocket on every single site that I've ever owned versus not doing it and not seeing anything happen. So yeah.
Speaker 0 01:02:03 Yeah. I mean, yeah, clearly it's a ranking factor. Google has said as much as a ranking for it has been crazy, you know, even it's been the biggest ranking factor for a long time. So I, I totally agree with you. Like why would you do all of the other things and just, just miss that one out and it, it, it really boils down to because it's difficult. Right? I think people would just avoid it because it's hard until you've got a process around it. Um, and um, I think, I think that's the main, the main domain driver and just risk associate. Right. If you don't, if you don't do it properly, like the way you're speaking about it is doing it properly. If you're doing it badly about chop and buying mix, uh, dodgy links, then yeah. There's a risk associated with that. And, uh, you know, you could pay for that, that decision, but
Speaker 2 01:02:41 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I usually am an advocate of like, like some people I go, should I ever buy links? And I think that, so there's kind of a skill and I'm sure you have this skill. Some people, I don't know if everyone listening does, but there is a skill to looking at our domain and saying, is this domain worth getting a link from a, there is a set of skills you have to look at where there out outgoing links are already pointing. You have to look at their traffic, you have to look at their domain authority, you know, where their net quote unquote neighborhood is in terms of like other sites that are like them. So there is a skill to that. But once you've mastered that, um, if you, once in a while think that it makes sense to buy a link or buy like the ability to do a guest post.
Speaker 2 01:03:22 I think some people can do that. I personally, I really don't. Uh, cause I'm just like, if it's, if it costs money, I'm not doing it. Like, it's just like my personal thought is it's just not worth it to me. Um, but yeah, generally speaking, like I think there can be places here and there if you have the expertise, but generally 100%, I'd say it's much better to just do the outreach, earn links organically, um, you know, and go back and forth with these people and, and see where it takes you. But yeah, I I'm 100% in the, you have to do link building and like you said, a lot of people don't want to do it cause it's hard. It's not fun. Uh, but in a weird way, I almost enjoy it cause I'm just really competitive in general. So I kind of enjoy it because I'm like, yeah, I got a link from this and this guy didn't, you know, like, and I'll tell you, when I go into S when I go into a niche, I literally go in and I have nothing against the people that I'm, I'm, I'm going against, but I'm of the mentality of like, this is probably a great person.
Speaker 2 01:04:20 They probably have a nice family. That's all wonderful, but I am here to destroy them. Like, that's kinda my, like, that's how I go. And it doesn't always work that way. And sometimes I get destroyed, right? Like in some of the niches that I go into, but I have that mentality to where like I'm going to crush them and that doesn't always work, but, uh, you know, it's nothing personal. It's what motivates me. It's what keeps me going to say, I, you know, I look at them and I put a target on their back and I'm like, I'm going to get this person I'm going, that's what I always do in a usually it's like, you know, and then when I started, went out a professor, I was going to go after Pat Flynn. Right. And how did that work out? Right. So it's just that mentality of doing that. So that's how I usually go about when I focus on a niche, that's how I do it. So
Speaker 0 01:05:00 Yeah. I've never quite heard it put in that way. And I, yeah, for sure. I'm the same, like, you know, you build up your competitor list and like the, the, they become like the hated, the, yeah.
Speaker 2 01:05:09 Like it's like, uh, like, uh, like Rocky for when he's got Drago and he's crumpling up the paper and all that. It's like that to me, I'm like, that's my, even though if I, if I met that guy, girl, they're probably a lovely person and I'd probably be like, Hey, thank you so much for paving the way in proving that this niche works. That's the reality of it. But in my head, I'm like, this is my art. Like, there's an, I'm not going to get into names now, but in the online business space, I have arch nemesis, like people that I'm like, I just want to bury them, even though I have nothing wrong with them personally, but that's what motivates me. It's like, I've got to beat that person. That's what motivates me.
Speaker 0 01:05:41 So yeah. I like it. I like it. Cool. Um, yeah. Right. So is that before we wrap it up, is there anything else like you'd like to, to, to, to chat about or discuss anything, anything you're getting up to? And one our professor we should know about, um,
Speaker 2 01:05:57 I mean, not so much like with what our professor right now, uh, what I will say. So I dove, we didn't touch on it too much, but I dove really heavily into, um, YouTube in 2020. That was my year of YouTube. If you will. Uh, from the start of the year to the end of the year, I had committed to doing three videos a week, every single week. I made it to the second week in December, and then I had a hiccup and I stopped, which was, I didn't stop completely. I only got down to two of week. Um, and I also got burnout. Uh, YouTube has been a very interesting, uh, experiment that I've had some difficulty with. Um, it's, I mean, I've done reasonably well. I think I have like 13,000 subscribers or whatever on my channel, which isn't terrible, but I've just found that to be a good but different than a Google.
Speaker 2 01:06:41 Right. Like for me, just Google has always been kind of the golden goose. So that's been a very interesting experience as well for those who have tried YouTube. Uh, but I would say like, in general, just talking about things, like if it was any like words of advice for people, um, I would just say, just have, have clarity and focus on where you should really go and try not to do too many things at once. Like you don't have to, you know, cause I see people who come into my community and they're like, well, you know, I heard that I have to be on, on Facebook and Instagram and Pinterest. And then I also have to have a YouTube channel and then a podcast and this, and I'm like, no, like just stop. Like, what you need to do is get one thing, grow it to where it works, grow it to where it's, it's making money, that one thing.
Speaker 2 01:07:25 And then kind of like what we just talked about with silos with sites, right? Like focus on one thing, make it work, make it work. And once it's working and maybe you have some staff in place to help you and things are okay, then it's okay to shift. So like, yeah, if I could, if I could go back and tell anybody anything, it would probably be focused a little bit more and don't do what I did, which is like everything under the sun and just, you know, be all over the place. But, um, yeah, that, and then yeah, when our professor, I mean, I'm just focused now I'm focused on blogging. I still do YouTube once a week. Uh, but I'm mostly just focused on blogging, like different content I do eventually, uh, I'm going to be creating informational products, uh, and all that I think after my wife and I have officially moved on and are in a warmer climate I'm then going to, uh, start building out those informational products. So,
Speaker 0 01:08:11 And your flip flops? Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:08:13 Yeah. My flip flops. So it'll be, it'll be online courses. It's funny. Cause I'm like here and it's cold and the weather isn't great all the time and I complain about it and I'm like, I want to move to a warmer climate so that I can go and sit inside my office and make online courses. But you know, and at the end of the day, I think it's a better living arrangement to be somewhere warm than here. So
Speaker 0 01:08:31 Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Cool. So for people that want to learn more and want to know more about your body, some more like what, where should they go?
Speaker 2 01:08:38 Uh, just one hour professor.com, uh, spelled out when our professor.com so on, uh, Google ABI or just, you know, any browser, whatever you can do that. But also, uh, if you want to check out my YouTube channel, we've got quite a, quite a few videos there. I think a lot of them are helpful and that's just under one hour professor as well. So really just type in one of our professors somewhere and you'll find me
Speaker 0 01:08:58 Great. Well, I want to say again, thanks so much again for, for joining us, Ron. I really enjoyed the chat, so yeah,
Speaker 2 01:09:03 Absolutely. Yeah. Mark. It was nice to meet you ahead. Had a lot of fun.
Speaker 0 01:09:07 Great. Thank you so much. No problem. Thanks again for tuning in and I hope you enjoyed the show. If you're listening to the podcast version of this episode, please subscribe on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts, please rate and review. As this will allow us to grow our audience and create more shows like this one. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to be the first to know about any new episodes that we release until the next episode.
Speaker 3 01:09:34 Goodbye.
