Speaker 0 00:00:09 Are you ready to get serious about building content sites and building a profitable business online. Welcome to the niche website builders podcast. We bring you the latest field, tested tips, tricks and strategies for building a profitable online asset. We interview industry experts, share customer success stories and reveal our own experiences. Working on hundreds of sites to inspire and motivate you to make something happen. Let's do this.
Speaker 1 00:00:41 Welcome to the niche website builders show. Today. I speak with Chelsea Clark. Chelsea has been in marketing for a while now, but she only just started out on our own right around four years ago, but wow, she's achieved a lot in that time. She blogs over at my paper, route.com. She's built a great community over there for, for online entrepreneurs. Um, we talk about a process for building and flipping sites. He's a real big flipper of sites. So she takes us through her strategy of, you know, what her thought process through buying a site and then kind of the process you go other takes when she, she kind of grows that site. And then, and then flips it just a few months later. And kind of, we talk about some of the returns that she's managed to get from doing exactly this kind of strategy.
Speaker 1 00:01:22 And she's done really well with that. And we also talk about, um, uh, strategies for going up for growing a profitable blog in general. So, um, you know, some of the main things that we cover or some of the digital products that she kind of uses as a, as a, as a whiter to monetize her, her blog. So in particular, she uses, uh, courses quite a lot. So it was really interesting to run through, you know, what she does there and the success she's found with that. And lastly, she, she runs her own website marketplace called blocks for sale.co. Um, so we took a little bit about that and how she runs that marketplace. And, and that was really interesting to kind of go through as well. So I, I found it to be like a really inspiring episode. Um, uh, Chelsea is a really inspiring person. So, um, yeah, just sit back and prepare to be motivated. I hope you enjoyed the show.
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Speaker 1 00:03:19 Welcome to the Nissan website builders show. Today I'm speaking with Chelsea cluck. Chelsea Clark is a content monetizations, strategics and digital investor. She blocks over her paper, route.com, where she also runs digital marketing courses and has an entrepreneurship podcast. She also has a website marketplace blocks for sale.co, where she acts as an intermediary. Welcome Chelsea.
Speaker 2 00:03:41 Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. It's going to be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 00:03:46 Excellent. Yeah, really, really looking forward to speaking with you. And we had a quick chat before, before we started recording. And as I mentioned then, like, um, I felt like I'd be missing out, like you you've, you'd be doing a lot of stuff. And, uh, you know, a lot of things are really interesting and I know only recently kind of come across your blog and your podcast. And, um, yes, I was really keen to kind of get you on the show so we could kind of talk a little bit in more depth about your story, which seems really interesting. So really excited to have you have you on,
Speaker 2 00:04:11 Well, thank you so much. I'm really happy to be here and honored that you invited me and yeah, you and I have a lot of things in common with our, uh, work that we do with niche, building the site building and affiliate marketing and all of that good stuff. So this is a, this is really going to be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 00:04:26 Excellent, excellent. So w I think what we'll do is, um, it'd be really great to kind of staff and like, hear like some of your backstory kind of where it all began and like, kind of bring us kind of up to like, to where we are today. And then maybe we can dig to dig a little bit deeper into some of the things you've done in terms of like strategies for building niche sites and, um, you know, other businesses that you've kind of started. So yeah. I'll let you take it away.
Speaker 2 00:04:49 Sure. Well, I got my start in the content marketing world. Actually, I was working in a corporate marketing job and I was building sites for the company and for clients of my boss and everything was going good, but I always had a blog myself on the side, and I just didn't really make the connection between the marketing I was doing in my day job and the blogging I was doing on the side as a passion for a long time. And I got laid off from that job. I didn't have a plan. I didn't have any savings. And I was like, I got to figure out what I'm going to do. And so I started a drop shipping business and I put my apartment up for rent on Craigslist to sublet it out. I had someone else come in and take it over. So my rent was paid.
Speaker 2 00:05:36 And then I had to figure out where to go. I actually found a 24 hour access office space that was available. It had 24 hour wifi. And so I went for it. I rented it. And I secretly lived there for, I think it was about two months while I was just funding like dropshipping startup. And so this was a couple of years back, you know, in my twenties. So I think, uh, things would be a little different now. I'm probably, I probably wouldn't rough it like that now, but it definitely worked out at the time. And I was got another job. I was working by day at a new marketing job. And then I was bartending my night, long story, short, short, I'm not going to go into too much detail, but eventually I found my way back to blogging. And I made the connection to applying my marketing interests and skills and monetization experience onto my blog.
Speaker 2 00:06:30 I got it generating $5,000 a month in revenue. And then I sold it for $50,000. And pretty much the rest is history. I was hooked obsessed with just building niche sites and building them for myself and selling them. And then pretty soon people started asking me for help selling their sites. And that's when I launched her paper route or her paper route where wherever you live. And we started to expand from there and actually show helping people to monetize and build out their sites, whether they want to sell them or not. And then that just led into the marketplace. Like you mentioned, at blogs for sale where people can buy and sell online businesses. So that was a lot, I know,
Speaker 1 00:07:15 No, you want to, you've done a lot. I like if yeah, like this, there's definitely like loads to kind of dig into some of the stuff that you've done. So what was that first blog that you wrote? What was the first blog that you, that you got to 5,000 and that you sold?
Speaker 2 00:07:29 So that was a beauty blog. It was a cruelty free beauty niche site. And it was, I liked doing it. I was getting a lot of product sense, so I was able to do reviews, but I was finding the actual time that it took to create that type of content. And I didn't want to be an Instagram influencer that wasn't my interest. I like love creating content, but I didn't want to spend my time on Instagram. So the beauty niche, I decided to just build it out, make it profitable and sell it. And, um, the, the reason I think that one I was able to monetize quickly was because it was so niche down and there is, or at the time I think there still would be. Now, there was a lot of interest in clean beauty cruelty-free brands that don't test on animals. And that was something that personally I am invested in, I believe in. So it just made sense to go with something that I felt passionate about.
Speaker 1 00:08:26 Awesome. And how are you monetizing?
Speaker 2 00:08:30 I was monetizing that blog primarily from affiliate links. I'm not Amazon. I did have some Amazon links on there, but I really focused on partnering with brands one-on-one or going through something like share a sale. Um, but I always tried to negotiate the commission rate. So instead of just accepting what was the main terms, I would reach out to the brand and try to negotiate a better. Um, so we were able to do that. I focused also on digital products. So I created, um, just small eBooks, like a little guide, sort of a capsule wardrobe for makeup. And, um, that was something that was able just to be sold pretty, pretty cheaply, really, but it added up just because there was a lot of interest in that niche at the time. So those were the two, the two main focus I then got, did get into media vine, but I had revenue. Wasn't a main focus. It was really just digital products and affiliate marketing.
Speaker 1 00:09:27 Yeah. Yeah. So, so how did you kind of, when you went to like negotiate those kinds of deals, which is definitely doable and really good, like how did you kind of, how did you kind of negotiate? Did you talk to them about like the amount of traffic that you had or how, how did you kind of negotiate those deals?
Speaker 2 00:09:44 Yeah, you can definitely use your traffic stats as leverage. So anytime someone's listening and they want to reach out to some of the brands, if you've already generated X amount of sales with a brand and you're probably already on their radar, and it won't be a surprise when you ask them for a higher commission. So think about the brands that you already are working with. That's what I would recommend. And, you know, you wouldn't want to come out and say, Hey, give me 60% commission. If right now everyone's getting 10%, but start with 15%, you know, start there and then you can really build up from there.
Speaker 1 00:10:17 Yeah. So in terms of selling the site then, so, uh, did you sell that privately through a, through a broker? How did that go?
Speaker 2 00:10:24 So the, yeah, that beauty blog I sold on the Flippa marketplace and then every site after that, I've just sold it myself through my own marketplace.
Speaker 1 00:10:37 Okay. Okay. And, and what sort of, kind of traffic levels have you got that too? Over time
Speaker 2 00:10:42 On which one? The one, the first one that, yeah, that one was getting, this is a couple of years ago, but I think it was getting about 45,000 page views a month. So not huge, but sizable enough that, um, you could work with what it was getting and it was getting a nice split between Pinterest traffic and organic Google. And that's even when I'm buying sites. That's really what I look for. I want to find a site that has a nice balance with Pinterest and organic Google. I don't really want it all over to one. I know a lot of buyers, they see Pinterest traffic and they get scared. They either think, Oh, I don't know how to keep the Pinterest traffic app. I don't understand it, or it's not as valuable as Google traffic, but I would disagree if you can find a niche site that is getting a lot of Pinterest traffic.
Speaker 2 00:11:34 What that means is that it's ranking in Pinterest search results. There are pins that could have been pinned years ago that are still sending traffic to that site. And there's a lot of value in that. So when I find sites that have good Pinterest traffic and you can go and you can check just like you would a seller's Google analytics, you can go and check their Pinterest analytics. So you can see the exact pins that are getting clicks when they're being clicked, who's clicking on them. And you could really use that to your advantage, knowing what the audience is already interested in. So when you buy that site, you can just build out on those topics and create more content around those popular topics.
Speaker 1 00:12:13 Yeah. I'd say they agree. Um, I use Pinterest whenever I can as well. Like I just, uh, I just love it as a it's it's it's, it takes time to get there, but like, it's, uh, it's actually quite a relatively cheap way of actually getting traffic, um, and pitting versus versus creating blogs, um, pending, pending, obviously got to create the blog. You've got create the content first, but you know, the actual pending exercise, um, is isn't, it, it takes time and you've got to set the right processes up, but it's not too, too onerous and you can definitely get VA's to kind of help out with that kind of good point. Yeah. Um, and so, yeah, I, I, I think it's, uh, I, I, I use it whenever I can. And like I say, it's a visual search engine really. So it's like, you know, those pins can say going to get, it's not like other social media where it's transient and things will disappear and they're gone forever. You know, it's, it's pins are going to get stuck forever. So yeah,
Speaker 2 00:13:08 Exactly. Yes. Those pins, if they're ranking bill, keep on setting traffic and unlike Twitter, like you're saying, when something is posted, it gets, you know, dead weight lost in a feed. And it's never to be seen again with a ranking pin. It's going to be seen for years to come and send you traffic for free to your sites for years to come. So there's just, it's definitely something to, uh, to focus on. I think as niche site builders and website investors, as we all are, it's something to really take into consideration into your content marketing plan.
Speaker 1 00:13:42 I mean, I'll be really interested in to kind of talk to you a little bit more about kind of how you think about starting blogs of how you recommend your, um, your audience kind of goes about starting blogs, but it'd be really cool to hear about any other kind of, what are the, some of the other kind of sites you mentioned drop shipping, but are there other blogs that you've kind of started and sold as well? Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2 00:14:02 Yeah. And then my first couple years of building sites, I was starting everything from scratch. Maybe I was buying an expired domain if it had back links going through arrests and trying to build up some of the old pages or links that may have existed at one point. But really I was starting from scratch and just building everything with a brand new WordPress install, brand new theme, just from the get-go nowadays what I do is I'll just buy a site that's already generated with some traffic and income and I'll build on it, you know, get the revenue up, get the traffic up and then sell it on. So I know you had Jared on the podcast recently and he was talking about buying and holding. I do that as well sometimes, but I love the rush of buying, flipping. I do. I love it. And I've also, I'm a Gemini, you know, I jumped from thing to thing.
Speaker 2 00:14:58 I don't usually want to focus on one niche site forever. So aside from my main business, like her paper, that's something I'll keep on blogging on for, for as much as long as I can imagine. But the niche sites that I start, I don't intend to hold onto them for very long. I really want to create something awesome. That is turnkey that I can sell and someone else can run with. Um, last week I sold a gen Z personal finance blog, and that was one that I bought about four months ago. And I didn't do too much. I really just updated the theme. I updated some of the older blog posts, fixed some SEO, you know, just got some of the pages, um, to, you know, meta descriptions and things like that that were missing. Did that type of work and then flip the, flipped it and sold it on. So that's really been my strategy for the last couple of years now. It's really just buying something where the content is really good. There's a little bit of traffic it's okay. If it's not amazing, it's okay. If it's not ranking, I know that I can put some work into it. And yeah. I just liked the rush of being able to see the make-over process and then let someone else take it over.
Speaker 1 00:16:09 Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Yes. Um, Adam, my, my business partner, we have kind of completely different, like he does that. He's definitely just like you where he, he buys something and he sells it on like pretty quickly after he just kinda yeah. Like exactly like what you said, type correct. Tightens up the pages like tight, uh, creates a new theme. Um, and, um, yeah, and just like, there's, there's enough to kind of increase the traffic by enough, that it's kind of, we're flipping and making like, you know, anything from a couple of thousand dollars to, uh, significantly more if it's, uh, if it works out. So, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm kind of more of the whole guy, but he's always, he's always trying to get me to kind of sell quicker and like when I've, when I've bought something. So, but yeah, maybe, maybe I'll come around to that, but let's say
Speaker 2 00:16:52 It's a good, good way to do it either way. There's nothing wrong with, with either way
Speaker 1 00:16:57 There isn't I think. Yeah. And I think you're either one or the other, it feels like, but, um, yeah, I dunno, but, um, yeah, I'm definitely a mobile long-term person, but maybe I'll do a bit of, a bit of a bit of that in between as well, but it's that tell us about like on this site or on some of the other sites, like what, what successes have you seen in like this kind of quick flip a hat, but what some of the, give us some of the numbers in terms of the transformation that you managed to do from my, in terms of traffic and maybe what you bought it for versus what you sold it for that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 00:17:23 Yeah. Happy to, uh, for one example, there was a site that I bought last year. It was a mental wellness blog. It had about a hundred blog posts on it. I bought it for $3,500. It was making about 200 to $300 a month in ad revenue. The thing that I really was attracted to was the content was so good. The seller, she wrote everything herself. It was very personal and like long articles, there's a lot to consume and it was very educational and informational. And there was just something about it that I knew could really connect with, um, with the audience that came with a small Facebook group, small community. So with that one, because it was a mental wellness site, I really knew that this couldn't just be something just like a transaction. There's really something personal with the community, with the people who read the blog.
Speaker 2 00:18:19 A lot of the readers are struggling with mental illness or, you know, there's people had depression and they were writing letters and emails to us. And so there was a certain responsibility that we felt with this one. So what we did is we really just focused on building out the community, giving more resources to the community and building out the content that was currently there. We monetized it with, um, affiliate links. So we focused on Amazon for that one. There's a lot of lifestyle products that worked well with that, uh, with the brand that had already been started. And we didn't want it to be super commercialized because of the content itself the Nisha was in. So we really had to do it in a way that felt good, you know, felt right for everyone. Yeah. So we, uh, partnered with online therapy affiliate programs, and we worked with them to just, you know, we just had a little at the end of articles, you've you need someone to talk to, here's a free link to talk to an online counselor, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 00:19:21 So it was never pushy. It was never salesy. We did it that way. And another way that I monetize that one is I partnered with ultimate bundles. There was when I bought the business, it came with a, an online course for just, uh, I think it was about having a healthy routine. So how you would wake up and spend your day. So we contributed that course to ultimate bundles. Ultimate bundles is a group where they have flash sales throughout the year, and customers get access to like a hundred online courses and eBooks for one really low flat price. And then the contributors, uh, people who sign up as a customer, they get to enroll in your course for free, but you get their email address. So it's a win-win for everyone. So that was a way that we really grew the email list. And that grew to, I think it was about 4,000 people in just a couple months.
Speaker 2 00:20:14 And then the revenue started to increase at the same time. I was earning about $1,200 a month with that site, that, between the digital products, the affiliate and the ad revenue, it was immediate line. And then I sold that one for $26,000. So that was a great profit margin. I bought it for 3,500, sold it for 26,000. And it, in that time, while I had it, it earned about $8,000. So I was able to get that return on my investment from the initial buy and then some, and then sell it on. So that was a good one. Another really great flip was one that I bought this site. I think it was about $250. Maybe it's around that Mark. It was a terrible site in that there was no traffic, but the content was so good that, and it was so huge. It had like a thousand articles and all these different categories.
Speaker 2 00:21:09 It had, um, travel business stocks, like all these different personal finance lifestyle shopping too much for one site. So what I did is I bought it and then I split each of the categories into seven different smaller niche sites. And I sold each of those on individually and just redirected the links from the main one that I kept hold of. So that was another good one. I purchased that. I said two 50, but I actually think it was about 500. And after selling off all of the different smaller sites, um, that profit was $16,800. And I did that in about six months. So that was a good one too.
Speaker 1 00:21:50 Yeah, that's cool. So how, how long was the time period with the first one? The mental wellness?
Speaker 2 00:21:55 The first one I sold it, um, I think it was nine months. I'd held it for nine months and worked on it.
Speaker 1 00:22:03 Yeah. So that's, I mean, it must have had some decent traffic to get like a, uh, an email list of 4,000 over that period of time. It must've, you must've had, you must have had some decent traffic coming to it, right?
Speaker 2 00:22:13 Yeah. The email list came from partnering with ultimate bundles. So that's what grew the email list. It started with about a thousand people on the email list when I purchased it.
Speaker 1 00:22:23 Yeah. That makes sense. That makes sense. Cool. That's really there. That's yeah, there's some good stories there. So I like the way that you kind of split that one off as well. And so you're just creating like multiple assets kind of from, from that. And I guess he wasn't really earning any more and it's disparate parts, but it was kind of, you were just sitting each site individually with, I dunno, like, you know, a couple of hundred posts each or something. Right,
Speaker 2 00:22:48 Exactly. Yeah. So each site got about a hundred to 200 articles and I monetize each one with different affiliate links throughout, and then some of them, I created a digital product. Like for the travel one, I created a little ebook of travel tips. This was before the pandemic, of course. Um, yeah, just things like that too. And then it started, um, it was, all of the sites were getting a little bit of traffic from Pinterest, just from the little bit of Pinterest work that I had started on them before selling them.
Speaker 1 00:23:19 So do, do you still have the main domain that's, that's redirecting links off to these other sites?
Speaker 2 00:23:24 I don't actually, I sold that one and she's still redirecting sites. Some of the sites we were able to redirect internally, um, not from the main domain. And I was able to do that because the pages were not ranking on Google. I think the original owner either just didn't know about SEO or what, but they had submitted, um, to Google. They had never really written with anything in mind. So some sites were ranking like way down, way, way, way down, but nobody was actually clicking on it. So it was safe to send off some sites that weren't being redirected because there literally was no backlinks, there was nothing ranking. So that's something to mention. Cause I wouldn't want to, anyone listening to think you could just do that. And then if the site is ranking, you could really tank a site. So I don't want to say that. Just, just a warning.
Speaker 1 00:24:17 Yeah. Yeah. Because quite often when, if you've got, you'd normally sell that domain with the site that you kind of sell as well. Um, you know, obviously that's part of the, part of the package. If you take that away, then you've got, you lose a bunch of brands, but yeah. Cool. And um, yeah. Yeah. That's already asked the question. I was going to ask you on that. It's kind of, where did you fall? Where did you come across these sites? Did you reach out to people like one-to-one or where they were on? Were they on that flipper or how did you find these sites or generally how do you find them?
Speaker 2 00:24:46 Yeah, so most of the sites that I buy now, people come to me. Um, I have a free valuation tool on my website and I personally look at each one. If I like a site, I'll just make an offer right away. If it's not right for me, then we'll list it on my marketplace and I'll represent it and help them find a buyer. So really that's how I'm finding most of my sites is people just bring them to me. Um, and through my email list to, um, whenever I send out a newsletter, there's a lot of people that are just like, Hey, you know, I started this blog. It's doing well. I don't have time to do it. Can you run with it? And that's really been the best way.
Speaker 1 00:25:24 Okay, awesome. Yeah. Let's come on to the, the, the brokering part as well in a second. But you mentioned them like some, you dabble with some drop shipping in the past. Like what, what was that that you did?
Speaker 2 00:25:35 I did. Yeah. So I did that, um, just a couple years out of college and I didn't end up holding onto it. I actually held onto the domain. I rebranded the site and sold the domain and website on a few years later, but the actual business that I was running, just, I just stopped doing it. It was drop shipping clothing, um, swimsuits and beachwear, uh, from China. And, um, I did that for a few years and it w it was a lot of fun, but man, there's just so much that goes into it. And I really wanted to just focus on the content side rather than customer service. That's not, you know, I'm all about passive income and we all know that niche building, isn't a hundred percent passive. It takes work and strategy, but there is a certain passive element that comes into play once your site is generating revenue, but the drop shipping site, it's really not just because there's a lot of back and forth. There's customer service. There's just certain elements you have to track. Where's the package, you know, what's going on and that's not where my, um, I'm not excited by that. I should say.
Speaker 1 00:26:41 Yeah, yeah. I've never tried drop shipping and I've heard that a lot, but also I've heard people that, you know, if you get it right, you can make a killing with drop shipping. So yeah, like, uh, but yeah, I'm not, I'm not kind of interested in now. That's right. I think it's more about the content for me. I don't think I'll be trying it anytime time soon, but of course you never know. Yeah. If the right thing come along. So, um, in terms of you have a course on like how they're starting a blog, which is one of your, your free courses kind of on, on your site, um, when you're talking to people about kind of starting a blog. So like, you know, they're starting from scratch, so they might not have the, any money to invest in kind of buying an existing blog like you do, and then kind of flipping it, like when people start from scratch, do you know what you did, you did, what do you suggest to them about like kind of choosing a niche? Is it more about like their passion or do you have them were kind of researching kind of ideas? Like how do you approach that with the people that you speak with?
Speaker 2 00:27:43 That's a great question. And I really do believe that it has to be sort of just the perfect match for you personally. Someone can't tell you what your perfect niche is going to be. I think it comes down to a combination of you have a passion in it. You have some experience in it, or you're willing to learn about it and research it. And also that you, yourself, you can see yourself enjoying writing about it for a while. So if you're going to be starting a site, I know a lot of people in the beginning, they want to get started, but they feel like they have to know what their niche is from the start. And that will sort of put a block and they won't get ahead because they're stuck at that place. So I always say, you can figure out your niche as you go.
Speaker 2 00:28:29 What you really need to do is just start and start writing and start serving your audience as your audience grows, see what it is that they need help with. And, you know, don't worry about knowing everything in the beginning of what your big business, your big blog is going to be. That can get worked out over time, just get out there, start writing. But if you have an idea of what it is right away, even better, because then you can really just focus on your keyword research, figuring out what problems you want to solve and creating content around that and how you provide those solutions. Then your niche will just fall into place a little bit easier, but either way, I would say just, don't worry about it. Just start, just start doing what feels natural and really where your interests are lying. And then as you become more advanced and you start doing it more and maybe you've created a few websites, then you're just going to have a knack for it.
Speaker 2 00:29:26 And you'll be able to see something trending or see something that seems interesting to you, that you can do some real research and figure out what products may be appropriate for that niche. And it'll just become like a formula and you'll be able to create content and digital products too, that really serve that one purpose. So that's what I would say on that. And in the free course, we do touch on that. And, um, you know, when you're just getting started, I know it feels like so much because it is, there's a lot to learn, but I think if you just take it day by day, learn a little bit, just be open to making mistakes and knowing that your mistakes are really not that bad. Just keep on learning and, you know, listen to podcasts like this and you'll be good.
Speaker 1 00:30:13 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I totally agree. Like people just get so stuck in starting. He just, just thought like, he might not be the thing that you end up doing and you might have been it, but like you just got to get started because you're never going to anywhere every time to start. So yeah, I totally, I agree with that. So in terms of, when you think about, uh, starting a new site and planning out the content, you kind of plan out like several months of content in advance of, or even when you're doing your, your flipping kind of approach, did you ever add content to that? And if so, like how do you think about like the type of content that you're going to add and how do you have what's that process that goes through your mind on that?
Speaker 2 00:30:50 I do. I like to start those projects with the exit exit strategy in mind and kind of I've worked my way back from that. So once I figure out what, where I want to get it to what sort of traffic, what sort of customers I'm seeing this niche site, uh, be able to achieve and what time then I can work backwards and figure out what type of content I need to create in order to reach those goals. So that's really my formula that I've always sort of followed. And I just really go step by step. And I start with maybe a three-month plan. I'll have a couple of blog posts, ideas, I'll have a couple of digital product ideas to support those blog posts and vice versa. And then I'll come up with my marketing plan. So I'll, we, we always go by the 20, 80 rule, 80% is promotion 20% is content creation.
Speaker 2 00:31:43 So we'll create a new blog post I'm spending much more time after it's been published on actually getting it out there. So I'll, I will man manually. So we'll manually go into Facebook groups and I'll share the new blog posts in specific groups that make sense for what the blog post is about. So rather than just going to general blogger share groups, I will think about what is the product that I'm selling in this blog post, where does this customer hang out? And then I will go to a Facebook group where that customer hangs out to a group that allows people to share content in it. And I will go in and I'll just let people know about it. If someone has a question that I see that relates to something I answered in the blog post, I can just comment, Oh, Hey, I actually just wrote a blog post about this, come check it out. If you're interested. And that's been a way that I've been able to generate a lot of traffic quickly to, uh, to new blog posts and of Pinterest too. That's where I focus on the promotion side. So it's really a nice mix of content creation and content promotion.
Speaker 1 00:32:47 Yeah. That's a really good, really good tip. I think it's definitely important when you're thinking about digital products, I think, or even courses like kind of like plan that kind of content, because it's really easy to, to like, you know, to take an example of, like I say, like a cooking blog, it's kind of really easy to just do a cooking blog and then think, okay, now I'm going to add a course onto this, but people might not be looking for a course, like they're just coming for something else or they're just becoming, because they're interested in buying, uh, I don't know some frying pan or something, but they're not as interested in the course, but if you're actually building content around courses, then you know, then you getting the right kind of people that are looking for the course, if that makes, if that kind of makes sense. And, um, cause it's very easy just to kind of tack it on as kind of an extra, but really you're not quite getting the right people coming, even if it is a similar kind of audience. Um, is that, is that something that you kind of think about in terms of
Speaker 2 00:33:44 Yes, absolutely. I definitely do take that into consideration and for me I'm always serving my audience. So whether it's the audience that I'm just starting to grow for a new niche site, an audience that came with a business, I just purchased or the audience that I've been building at her paper over the years, I'm always sending out quizzes surveys. If I send a newsletter at the end, I'll ask, Hey, what do you think about this? Just to get people telling me what it is that they need. And then I go, and I answer those through the blog posts or through the actual products that I create just from literally asking people, what do you need? What's not working with X, what's your struggle with X or what could be better about this. And if you really just listen to what people are saying, but then also read between the lines.
Speaker 2 00:34:33 A lot of the time you are going to hit gold, because if you ask people their opinions, people love to talk about themselves. People love to talk about what they hate. You know, I don't ever want to be a negative person, but the fact is, if you ask someone what they hate about a niche or a product or a thing, they're going to tell you nine times out of 10, a lot more often than if you ask them what you loved about it. So that has been something that's really helped me in creating the type of digital products and courses and eBooks and even templates when I've done, um, website, theme, template, uh, stores, just asking people what they don't like about their theme. And then I can create a theme that cross it, ticks those boxes to be on the other side of it.
Speaker 1 00:35:21 Awesome. So that's something that you've done. You say you created a site for, for themes.
Speaker 2 00:35:25 I have, yes. That was another flip. So I've bought a Genesis theme website, Genesis child beams site. And then, uh, it had about eight themes. They hadn't been updated in a while. So I just went in, I updated the code and created a couple of new themes, did a launch that the business had a new theme and then it was about seven months later. Um, just flipped it on and someone else else's running it and she's doing amazing with it. So it's nice to see when that happens.
Speaker 1 00:35:54 Oh, that's great. Yeah. I mean, you really have kind of mixed it up in terms of the different kinds of stuff that you've, you've gone into. Yeah. That's true. That's really true.
Speaker 2 00:36:01 Well, yeah, that's the thing. That's the awesome thing about niche site building, I think is that you really get to do so many different things. And if you are multi-passionate and you have different skills and interests, you can apply a certain skill set to one site and then sell it on and then focus on the other site where you can do a completely different interest or focus or skill that you may have in your back pocket over the years built up. And now you can actually express that and move on. So that's the thing, it's just a great combination of creativity and technical and analytical. It really combines all of those things. So if you're a nerd like me, it's like the best job in the world.
Speaker 1 00:36:43 Awesome. So in terms of like the, um, like, you know, the monitorization, we've spoken a little bit about ads and a little bit about, um, affiliate, um, and ad networks kind of, yeah, just to kind of looking at one of the courses, just trying to get a feel for kind of some of the other stuff you've done, you kind of got an email marketing course. You've kind of got a business branding course and influencer marketing course. So know what, what are some of the other ways that you've kind of, of the interesting ways that you've kind of monetize different sites and, um, and managed to kind of build an audience.
Speaker 2 00:37:17 Those are really the main ones that you hit on there. So the, the digital courses, eBooks website templates, like we just mentioned, um, ad revenue. So I wouldn't, I'm building a site now. Usually I'll get it on Zohak and we'll build it out there and, um, you know, work with the team there. They're awesome. And I also really like Zohak because you can get your sites in the, the monthly threshold sessions are lower than other ones. In some cases, if you still have a site that has to have good quality of course, but you can get it in, um, a little bit sooner than you might on another network and you can just start earning while you're building the site. So I really liked that about them. Um, but yeah, my focus is usually affiliate marketing and then creating digital products that support those affiliate links. So let's say you want to teach, um, about how to start a Shopify store. You might create a free online course showing people how to use Shopify, but when they sign up, they get to use your affiliate link to join Shopify, and then you can make money on that. So even though it's a free course, people are signing up for your affiliate links once they get in and you can generate a good amount of income that way.
Speaker 1 00:38:32 Okay. So yeah, it sounds like you've, you spent quite a long on in terms of the digital product side, a lot of, lot of the focus has been on courses. Is that fair? Or what other things have you done? Yeah, I mean, because of course it's, they're not, they're not easy to, or they're not, they don't, they're not quick to put together, right. Especially if you're like gonna touching into that one niche and then touching it for another, you kind of got to pick up a lot of stuff and learn it and then articulate it down real quick. So like, have you got any tips on like how you can kind of go about creating a course for a site?
Speaker 2 00:39:01 I do. And you know, this is my like secret one of my secrets and I'm happy to share it. I look for sites when I'm buying. I look for sites that come with an online course. So the seller has already created all of the content. And what I do is I can just go and create a new intro at the beginning of the course, if it's going to be something that I'm going to bring into my business, of course, go through the content and make sure that you actually stand by everything that is said in the course. And you don't just take it and hope for the best, but I'll create a new intro. And then I will introduce myself, introduce my business. And then I will say the following lessons are narrated by Sarah or James or whoever it was that had actually created the content. And then I'll add a couple additional lessons. I'll create some downloadable deliverables. I'll just put my stamp on it. But the actual bulk of the course is actually created by the person who I purchased the business from. And I've done that a few times and then just sold that as a, as the business goes on to its next place. And maybe the new new owner does that as well. It takes away my intro and creates their own intro and it lives on that way.
Speaker 1 00:40:14 Cool. That's a, that is a good tip for sure. Um, yeah, that's, that's definitely another asset to continue. It could consider like when you're looking at buying a site. So I like that
Speaker 2 00:40:24 Creating courses, like you say, it takes so long, so if you can get a little shortcut like that, I highly recommend it.
Speaker 1 00:40:31 Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And I guess you kind of need some sort of audience as well already because promoting and selling a course as well as isn't, it isn't easy. You've got nobody to sell it to you. Definitely. Cool. So, um, in terms of, um, like other kind of digital products that you've kind of done, is there anything else that you have done outside of, uh, courses?
Speaker 2 00:40:54 Those are really my main ones. So courses I've done a couple eBooks, the template shop that those are really, my focus is if it's not, um, something, uh, just online. I mean, we've had Facebook groups, that's been another way that we've generated traffic as well as brought in some revenue. So I don't know if it really be considered a digital product, but I think it is a social community. Um, but yeah, that's really it. And for me, I don't try to focus on doing too much or spreading myself too thin. I really focus on what I know and if it's going to be creating and launching, promoting a course, then I'll do it. But if it doesn't make sense for that niche or for that business, I'm not going to try to create a course from scratch because there's just other ways to generate revenue quicker and, um, through affiliate marketing, I really do believe,
Speaker 1 00:41:49 Yeah. I, when you, when you, when you've used Facebook groups in the past, is that generally that the sites come with a Facebook group as well? Have you ever started some from scratch? Like how's, how's that work?
Speaker 2 00:42:00 Yeah. They've always been ones that have come with a business that I have acquired and usually I'll just go in. I will see if it has been active, if there's members still posting regularly, if you are able to find a business that comes with an active Facebook group, that's great because you can just walk yourself right into an instant audience, um, who will see everything that you post in that group. It's just a nice way to cut into the Facebook algorithm that a Facebook page just doesn't really work the same. So organic Facebook pages, it's just not doing what we would use to, you know, not so much everything is paid to play these days, but a Facebook group is a shortcut and a free, short pet. So that's a good asset. If you find a business that comes with a Facebook group.
Speaker 1 00:42:50 Yeah, I agree. I love Facebook groups and I think they're generally more personal than like, if, if you know, you've got a mailing list, it comes with a mailing list, depending on our hot, that meeting is held well, often has been emailed. It can be quite a barren place, but the group is kind of a little bit more personal. So if you kind of start talking in there and kind of then trying to promote the course in there, that's probably, you're probably going to get more results then through a mailing list, I would imagine.
Speaker 2 00:43:15 Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. I think so.
Speaker 1 00:43:18 Yeah. Cool. Okay. So let's move on to your, um, to the website marketplace that you, you started that you did. Did you start that in 2019? Is that right?
Speaker 2 00:43:28 Yeah, I started it in 2018, but I just say officially 2019, because I had the website looking nice by then, but I was a yeah. Buying and selling sites and helping other people by, um, before that in 2018 too. And I actually did work at a business brokerage, um, before I quit to blog full time and I was building sites for the business brokers. So that's sort of what, uh, sort of turned on the light bulb for me. And then I went through the, uh, international business brokers association. I did the training there to learn how to be a broker for brick and mortar businesses, but then I just applied that to the digital space for what I knew with niche site investing. And it really helped, um, I would say quite a bit.
Speaker 1 00:44:14 Awesome. So, ah, that's cool. I didn't realize you'd done all of that kind of in the background as run that you had a previous job, but kind of doing that kind of stuff. So that's really interesting. So in terms of like, I mean, how do you just kinda, you know, how do you kind of promote that business and how do people kind of find like today, like, is it just through mainly through her paper route that people can come and find you that way? Or how, how, how do people come, come across you
Speaker 2 00:44:40 People right now, they seem to be finding me a lot through Google search, which is great. That's like the Holy grail and that's what we want. Um, so that's been really nice in the last, I guess the last year it's mostly been Google traffic. I don't pin as much as I should for this business, just because I'm always focusing on so many things that now I have someone on my team who's taking over the pinning for this, for the marketplace and that is already showing results. Um, which is great. I like to pin into tail in communities. So those are tailwind as an app. I'm sure many of your listeners are familiar, familiar with it, but you can go in and pin to these different niche communities. And then there's lots of people there that will see it and possibly repin it to, to expand your audience.
Speaker 2 00:45:26 So that's been really good for pinning on promoting our listings and my her paper, email lists too. I love those guys. They're right into niche site building. They're all content creators, small business owners and people who just want to learn how to do it better online. And so whenever I have a new listing, I'll let them know. So that's been a really great way to get the word out as well. And I guess in the last six months, I seem to be doing a bit of a publicity tour. It wasn't really planned, but I've been guesting on a different virtual summits and podcasts, and also interviewing a lot of my customer or clients who have bought and sold sites on the marketplace. And I've interviewed them on my podcast too. So that's another way that we've really just been getting the word out, um, for our small businesses, it seems to be growing pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 00:46:15 Yeah. That's so I wouldn't have necessarily thought that Pinterest was, you know, someone that you could, that you would use that for that kind of business. Like generally people talk about it being very visual and using it for visual stuff, but it sounds like it's working for you, like in that space as well.
Speaker 2 00:46:32 Totally. Right. And that's, that's actually the reason why I said that it hadn't really been a focus for me in the beginning. Cause I just assumed that too. And then when I started to pin my listings, I was really surprised about the traffic that was coming in and the emails people were emailing me and saying that they had found me on Pinterest from a listing pin. And so that's something that I think was really cool and the type of pins that I was creating were text-based. So I would literally just say like travel blog for sale and make the colors all pretty. And that really was like a no brainer when we started doing that. So that was a good one.
Speaker 1 00:47:10 So do you think it's almost that you might be that the people that are coming and finding you via Pinterest, are they, you find that there they are already seasoned bloggers or do you feel like you might be tapping into an audience of people that are gaining interest in the idea of owning a blog because they found you on Pinterest? Like w w w do you think that is? Yeah, well,
Speaker 2 00:47:30 I feel that there are so many other people blogging about blogging. It is such a competitive niche to be in. And that niche was really not a niche I was focusing on. I was creating training and content about traffic building and marketing and blogging because I personally have an interest in it, but I wasn't planning to make that my full-time thing. So the fact that I know there's a lot of competition in this niche, always surprises me when people come to me for starting a blog, I absolutely appreciate it. But I'm finding a lot of people who had maybe started their blog with someone else's course over the years, they've decided, okay, maybe it's not for me, or I want to do a completely different niche or I've had a baby. I don't want to do this right now. They're coming to me to sell that blog. So that's really, I think the market that is working well for me, and that's really where I feel the best that I can really serve people the best, because sure. You can read my blog and learn how to start a blog today. All that information is updated all the time. It's current, it'll help you. You can do that today. But for me, my passion is the exit strategy of what happens when you're done with that blog. So that's really the, uh, the people that I'm speaking to now.
Speaker 1 00:48:48 Yeah. Okay. That's that's cool. So in terms of the, the marketplace, like, um, take us through like how that, you know, if we were to, if I wanted to sell a blog on your marketplace, um, what's the process that you go through? Is there a due diligence process? Do you have a certain bar that people have to meet to kind of get into your marketplace? How does, how does that work?
Speaker 2 00:49:07 Yeah. So when people submit their site, we do look at sites that aren't monetize as well. Our focus is sites that are monetized though, but we don't say no right off the bat, because I know that there are some gems, a site that may not be earning revenue may still be valuable because of the content, because of the traffic, because of the products that come with it, things like that. So our intake form, it really just asks the basic questions. Where's the money coming from? You know, how are you earning? Why do you want to sell, what are your page views? Um, really just basic things like that. And then when we get into more of a conversation, we can dig into it more. Um, but people that are coming to sell, I'm finding, they're just feel like their passions have changed and they don't want to give up and give up and let it expire.
Speaker 2 00:50:01 Like they don't want their hosting to just expire and kill their blog. And that was a big reason for why I started the marketplace is because I know how much work goes into creating these sites. I know how much time effort, passion it goes into, goes into creating. And I didn't want people to just give up on their sites because I know that there are buyers and investors and people who will be interested in it. So that's why I created the marketplace. And I'm finding that our like sweet spot for where, uh, the type of sites that sellers want. It's really the ones that are earning between $200 to a thousand dollars a month. More than that is good too. But whenever we get a site in that mid range, there, they sell so fast, they'll sell the next day sometimes. And that's sort of the problem.
Speaker 2 00:50:50 It's a good problem to have, but it's the problem that we have is that we just can't stock sites fast enough. And we have all of these investors who are contacting me and saying, when are more sites coming out and, you know, we say for getting them there in the pipeline, but really that is where we're at right now is we always need, um, more, more sellers. And I really just value all of that work that goes in. And I just can't stress that enough because I am a blogger and I've been there. I'm still there. I build sites every year and building new sites. So I know what it's like. And there's a certain emotional element that comes when you're ready to sell. If it's your first site, it really feels like you're selling a part of yourself. So I value that too. And, uh, when you do it though for the first time, it's a lot of fun and you'll probably get addicted. Like we all are
Speaker 1 00:51:46 Cool. So, uh, yeah. So how do you like a, do you take a commission cut of like a, the sale price or how does it, how does that work?
Speaker 2 00:51:53 We do, yeah, so we do take commissions, but 15%, um, depending on what price this site sells for. So if it's selling for over a hundred thousand dollars and we'll reduce that commission, but, um, it really just depends on the actual selling price. And we are planning on expanding a bit of the marketplace too, so that sellers can upload their own listings. And that will, that will really, um, be good for everyone I think too, and be a more affordable option as well.
Speaker 1 00:52:22 Yeah. Okay. And, um, as a, as a, as a buyer then, so I, I assume like, you know, the best ways to get onto a mailing list or two, and, and, and then you'll kind of let people, let the mailing list know when new sites are available. Is that, is that the best way
Speaker 2 00:52:36 We do have a, yeah. A mailing list and you can customize your deal preferences so you can sign up, it's free. We send a once a week, uh, email blast out with any new listings that we have. And, uh, it's, it's a good way to just sort of keep in contact too. Um, but yet that, that's how we do it. And actually you're making me think, I want to get on your mail list now, too. Cause I realize I'm not, and I've already been watching all your YouTube podcasts interviews, so I need to subscribe. I'm sure you'll have some things going on that I'm going to want to buy.
Speaker 1 00:53:03 Cool, cool. Yeah. I'll show. Yeah, we work a lot with them. Yeah. We build sites and stuff for people, but we w we don't. Yeah, we don't do any of that kind of brokering, but we do, we do, uh, work. We, we source expired the mains for people. So we kind of vet expired the mains to make sure that they're going to extend the best. Yeah. I'm going to a dark history of any kind that we checked that there, that the backlink profile is healthy. We do a lot of kind of due diligence there. So we will source and find expired to most people and then build sites for them on those expired domains. But that's kind of the, uh, you know, kind of where we're positioned in that space. So yeah, we don't. Yeah. But, um, yeah, so, I mean, that's something that you might, might be interested in because domains are good for that and Oh, good for sporty sites are good for redirecting into a site if it's got a good profile as well.
Speaker 1 00:53:51 So, um, yeah. So, um, the last thing I was just going to ask you was, um, so I mean, that's, I mean, we've talked about a lot there, right. But that's in a, in a really short period of time, we're talking about like, since 2017, right. You started all of this, so that's like four years, if that right. You know, you've done a lot that time. So what, when you, when you think about it, I mean, it just sounds like there's a lot of things, but what does that, that's what you've done in, that's what you've done and achieved in the last four years. What's what are the next four years hold for, for Chelsea and for her paper route?
Speaker 2 00:54:28 Yeah, really. I'm just focused on scaling right now. So just growing the business and focusing on the podcast too. So the things that really light me up and being able to do that, so we had half a million dollars last year and are really just want to expand and see what we can do, create better content, help more people, and just really have fun with it. And that's really where I'm focused right now. So what I'm doing is I am working on my next virtual summit. So I hosted one last summer. And right now I'm just in the works of planning, this year's one, and it's going to be all about website investing. So Mark, I'd love to get you involved in that. Um, but yeah, that's really where my focus is and the virtual summit, the podcast, and just getting more listings out there, reaching more people and just seeing what we can do is take it to the next level.
Speaker 1 00:55:25 Awesome. That sounds, yeah, that sounds cool. So do you have, do you have, do you have many people working with you on your team, in the business?
Speaker 2 00:55:31 I have a small team of four people and, uh, they're, they're awesome. They're great. They're a huge help. And, um, really four seems to be like a good number right now. I definitely work too long as a solopreneur. I felt like I had to do it all as many new business owners do at that time. I'm glad that I overcame that. It just, you know, opened up the world and the fact is so many people are so they can handle all the things. We all think that we can. We're the only one that could do something that is so not true. Uh, your time is more valuable than you sitting in front of the computer and doing everything in your business. I don't know who needs to hear that, but someone needs to hear that today,
Speaker 1 00:56:13 For sure. For sure. Yeah. Like I think, yeah, it took, it takes everyone, I think, a long time to learn that, but then when you, once you've done it, you go back and you think, why, why have I not done? Navigation
Speaker 2 00:56:24 Is great.
Speaker 1 00:56:25 Yeah. And that needs to be a bumper sticker or something. I think so. Cool. So, um, um, before we wrap it up, then, is there anything else that I've missed or anything else that you'd like, kind of like to mention to our audience or, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:56:39 Um, no, I mean, I just want to say thank you so much for having me on, we definitely covered a lot of topics there in that hour. Um, so really just thank you so much for, for having me on some really, really great experience.
Speaker 1 00:56:52 Yeah, no problem. So, um, where are the best places for people to go to, to find out about what you're doing and where you work?
Speaker 2 00:57:00 Sure. Well, you can find me at her paper, route.com. Uh, that is my main blog and you can find the marketplace there and my podcast courses, and I have just a ton of free content on things like affiliate, marketing, email marketing, and niche site investing. And that's just all there on the blog that her paper, route.com. And if you are interested, I have a free niche site toolkit at her paper.com/toolkit. And that gives you some, as we're touching on some of these Pinterest marketing tips, we go a lot deeper into Pinterest inside there, and you can get everything for free.
Speaker 1 00:57:33 Okay. Well, thanks once again for Chelsea, for having on child, think that was really good episode. Like we, like I said, we covered a lot and you've done a lot and it's really inspiring for, for me and for everyone. I think so. So thanks. Thanks for taking the time. Thank you so much, Mark. Thanks again for tuning in and I hope you enjoyed the show. If you're listening to the podcast version of this episode, please subscribe on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts, please rate and review. As this will allow us to grow our audience and create more shows like this one. If you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe to the channel and click on the bell to be the first to know about any new episodes that we release until the next episode. Goodbye
